Convert Your Car to Hydrogen

i was thinking the same thing also. The site really had no proof whatsoever. If it was created it wouldnt be that hard to find someone willing to publish it. But i do think oil companies are not trying that hard to figure out a new way of energy, which is kind of obvious. Why switch to something new when you have been making money off it for decades.

Hi, what I don't really understand about all this, if you could make a car run on water generating the hydrogen while driving, that is impossible isn't it? The energy required to split the water into hydrogen and oxygen is more than the energy returned by the engine after burning the hydrogen to water (due to energy losses). To power a 100kW car with hydrogen for say 1 hour, you will need a 100kW generator that runs for at least 1 hour. This will only be environmental friendly if that 100kWh comes from solar or wind energy. So, where is the cheap part in this process??

Here a link for the Nay-Sayers about a car running on Hydrogen....Voila! Presenting the true water engine!...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=d7ZZAfZnvog

Ok, since people seem to be missing the point here I'll restate it.


NOBODY THINKS THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE!

It is very possible, and has been done many times. Nobody is denying that. The point we're trying to make (that everyone ignores) is that it costs more in the long run to produce the hydrogen then it does to produce the gasoline. Until the cost of hydrogen production drops to a comparable level with gasoline it's not cost-effective to switch over. The energy to produce that hydrogen has to come from somewhere, and right now that ultimately is still oil. It takes more oil to produce the hydrogen then it does to produce the gasoline.

Until bigger and more efficient solar, wind, or even nuclear plants are built, or a drastically more efficient method of hydrogen production is devised, it's simply not going to save us any oil to switch our cars over to hydrogen.

While I can't say whether unitednuclear is legitimate or not, I can say that the ability to switch between hydrogen and gasoline at the flip of a switch is apparently very possible. BMW plans to have a hydrogen/gasoline vehicle available to the public in 2008 and they too make the claim of flipping a switch.

http://www.bmwworld.com/models/745h.htm

Several other manufacturers are working on such projects as well. While I will acknowledge there are some differences of opinions about range of travel, the concepts are at least real.

As for whether the use of chemically bonded hydrogen vs liquid hydrogen is feasible, I would point out that stored in a liquid state would require extremely low temperatures (over 200 degrees F below zero) which would pose problems for long term storage of fuel in the vehicle.

An engine is basically an air pump.
This would make it impossible to mix the hydrogen with pure oxygen. The storage system he is selling is real, although I would think in a normal vehicle it would run a car for about 5 minutes. The fact is, the only real solution is to work harder on the electrolisis generation. It is the only safe method of transporting hydrogen, as water on-board the car. I have had great luck producing hydrogen with electrolosis to run lawnmowers and a motorcycle(250 cc) But nothing like a car yet.

I have been following the Hydrogen for cars since 1974, when gasoline prices first started rising from below 30 cents a gallon toward a $1 per gallon. At that time, I read two articles: one in the Scientific American in which a physicist commissioned for the Naural Gas Institute wrote about how Hydrogen could be produced using nuclear power and piped through existing natural gas pipelines. (I still have that article on my coffee table!) The other article was about a Californis man who converted his car to run on Hydrogen for only $125 (1974 money.) He used aluminum hydrite pellets in a standardized metal "cassettes" that he envisioned "service stations" would use to "refuel" vehicles by just exchanging for a refilled one.

I saw that someone was concerned about engines rusting from the inside. First, engines now are generally made of aluminum. And, second, you're forgetting about the fact that pistons a cylinders are lubricated with oil which will prevent rust. Last, the heat in the combustion chamber and exhaust system will be enough to dry those parts enough that they would rust any more than they do today.

And, for the person who mentioned the Hindenburg, you'd better study a bit more science that play virtual reality games. Science has proved that the Hindenburg fire started from a spark igniting a very combustible component in the paint covering the skin of the lighter-than-air ship (the same component used in NASA's solid rocket boosters!)not from the Hydrogen.
If you would bother to Google "hydrogen for cars" you would see that Californis already is using Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicles and has a map of all the refueling stations, and expects to have a state-wide "Hydrogen Highway" by 2012. You also find that Honda already has both a Fuel Cell Hydrogen car (the FCX) and A car with a Hydrogen internal combustion engine (ICE). Also, that GM and Dow teamed up in a joint venture to produce Hydrogen cars and distribute hydrogan for those cars world-wide.

It is coming, folks! Hybrid cars in 5 or less years will be obsolete.

Tom (MA Engineering, MBA)

Tom, nobody is saying hydrogen powered cars are impossible, they're obviously not. The issue is feasibility. Hydrogen requires more energy to produce than gasoline. Where is that energy coming from? Oil, for the most part.

This means that, as it stands now, gasoline is more efficient than hydrogen. Until this changes it's not going to do the average person any good to convert their cars. Hydrogen fuel cells are an attempt to produce hydrogen more efficiently, but they're very expensive to produce and maintain as well as still not equalling gasoline's efficiency.

Note that I still feel hydrogen research is desirable, even by 'garage researchers', but that doesn't mean that I'm blind to its faults like so many other people seem to be.

Im shocked at you people...You all talk as if big oil has paid you all off for support. As for the person that wrote... "I don't believe a standard car engine can safely burn hydrogen, either. I seem to remember something about a Hindenburg..." Dude..? Are you like really R'Tarded or something? Fueling your car with hydrogen does not mean we will the cabin of it with hydrogen and float it above the ground.. Hydrogen was NOT the fuel source of the I don't believe a standard car engine can safely burn hydrogen, either. I seem to remember something about a Hindenburg...
... Its just what caused it lift. Anyways.. Modern hydrogen systems are more safe to use than a typical gas engine. Why? Because there is not hydrogen stored in any form other than in the gas lines.. Your fuel tank is only a water tank... If your not for us, your against us.. If your not helping to bring hydrogen tech to the mass, your working to keep it from us and dooming us to a lifetime of being slaves to big o

Ravious, you are talking like some wild kook who "has solved the problem of" in this case car fuel and starts a rant when someone starts pointing out flaws. Nobody here has been bought off by Big Oil, or if so - Where's My Check? Using hydrogen to power vehicles has problems, one of which is storage. You CANNOT just fill your tank with water, break it apart and then burn the components to provide power, the energy costs to do so are prohibitive. Hydrogen has to be refined out and transfered from the processing plant to a local storage and again to the vehicle. If you transfer it as a gas you have extreme flamibility problems, not only technical but perception as well. As a liquid you have a lot of technical problems and as any other form there are technical problems as well. Your rants do you no favors. You are proof that Indiana is a good place to be from.

I somehow doubt that someone with a faulty grasp of grammar, spelling, and punctuation is just the sort of person to crack the hydrogen production problem for us. I'd rather put my faith in somebody more qualified to get his point across in a meaningful and informative manner.

You know, something other than "Dude..? Are you like really R'Tarded or something?".

I have given this concept some considerable thought. First of all, one must be able to think outside the box. Secondly, the gentleman from Clearwater, Fl. that the news clip on youtube about the water engine has gotten more thumbs up from several engineering firms etc.. They say his invention is very plausable and seems to work. He is obviously not a mechanical or chemical engineer, but seems to me rather to be a saleman type person that has modified a Brown's gas torch.

Here is the major thought of mine on the subject....How is it that companies with virtually endless supplies of research and development money (regardless of who they are) that employ chemical engineers and mechanical engineers by the thousands, that supposedly understand all of the current theories concerning the trades, can't come up with the kind of scientific results as a Brown's gas torch salesman can?

Something else to consider: Everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon and be a nay sayer trying to explain how EXPENSIVE it is to use electricity to generate hydrogen.....
First of all, when was the last time the alternator in your car or truck sent you an electric bill?
OK I know....the next thing somebody is going to tell me is that your vehicle only has one alternator.....and that is does not make enough power to decompose water into hydrogen to run a car......
How many WOULD it take? Two? Three? Five? Ten? Twenty?....Hmmm let me see, I think they might go as high as 200 amps each or is it more?
If a belt can turn the pully on one alternator, couldn't it pull two....etc? How many?

Ok so now I'm going to hear that it is too big of a drain on the engine to run multiple alternators to power numerous batteries.....

So who ever said it had to be driven by the motor?
Two wheel drive vehicles have 2 extra wheels that are not powered......does that mean that an extra 2 wheels with gear ratios modified to drive the alternator/generators?

If you think you can, or think you can't, generally speaking you are correct. If you're waiting for the right opportunity to do it, waiting for the right day, waiting for Uncle Bob and Aunt Jane to go home.....you'll be waiting forever and it'll never get done.

Don't die with the hope for mankind in you silent, it might be you,YES YOU that holds the key to last piece of the puzzle....DO IT TODAY!

Geeze Laurence, it's simple high school physics here.

Alternators don't just provide free power, it has to come from somewhere else first. In a gasoline powered car the gasoline is burned in the engine to provide mechanical force, which drives the wheels. This mechanical force is also used to drive the alternator. No engine = no alternator running = no electricity.

Now, you might argue that an engine burning hydrogen would also provide mechanical energy that can be siphoned off to run an alternator, and you'd be right. You could even chain many alternators together to provide enough electricity to break the hydrogen out of water. But that requires a lot of mechanical power. So much so that you wouldn't have any power left over to actually move the car.

In fact the problem is even greater than that. Right now there is no way to get more power out of water via hydrogen than is required to get that hydrogen in the first place.

If this isn't clear then let's try an extremely simplified example.

You want to produce 100 units of power by generating hydrogen from water. Unfortunately since this is such a difficult process it turns out that it requires 120 units of power to produce that 100 units of hydrogen power. That's right, every time we produce 100 units of hydrogen power we consume 120 units of fossil fuel power, or the equivalent. That's a net loss of 20 units. More or less, this is in no way meant to be an exact demonstration.

It simply requires more hydrogen to electrolyze all that water than you get back from it. It's an energy sink.

If you can figure out how to produce 100 units of hydrogen power with 100 units or less of conventional power then you've got something.

That's the goal people are working toward. Until that goal is reached hydrogen will require more energy to run your car than gasoline, which is rather counterproductive.

And I'm not even touching your '2 extra wheels' fiasco.

If one wanted to find "free" energy to convert H2O to hydrogen in a car they would only have to target the vegicle's efficiency short-falls. Capturing the extra power during idling times or reusing the exhaust to run a heat engine (about 75% of all energy from gasoline is exhausted through the tailpipe as heat). That energy could then easily be used to extract hydrogen from water. Of course, it could also be used more efficiently in an electric motor.

MPG gaines could VERY roughly be calculated by multiplying the efficiency of each step in the process. Exhaust heat * Heat Engine Generator Efficiency * water to hydrogen * ICB efficiency = 0.75 * 0.30 * 0.70 * 0.25 = 0.04. So one could improve the overall fuel efficiency by 4 points. Of course these numbers are arbitrary estimates, but not too far off.

Eric, I've been told on several occasions that about 80% of the energy in gasoline is used moving the engine or wasted as heat in the engine compartment. Capturing that waste heat loss would be another "free" source of energy to use. Regardless, the point has been made previously thta it takes more energy to break water into hydrogen and oxygen than you would recover to power the car. I think centeralized hydrogen generation plants with "gas stations" for providing fuel to cars would be better. If the technical problems can be worked out.

Guys, unless kg-s of platinium used as electrodes any hydrogen generator is not gonna last too long. Keep your grand for other purposes, spend for chocolates for your sweethearts or smtg?

This link to a Guy named Aaron who shows his simple water fuel cell. http://waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1501&highlight;=&sid=5723bc040d57062de071394a20015533#1501

Link here to the video... http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g307/imaaronhall/?action=view¤t=MVI_0127.flv

Link here will take you to page with many links to others who use this method and to Inventor's videos (before he died from poisoning) where he teaches how to make this water fuel cell... http://waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=416

This process is NOT Electrolysis. It is 180% out of phase with Electrolysis. Is exactly the opposite of Electrolysis. Produces much more power that is required to produce the hydrogen. Does so with tap water and no additives.

Naysayers never get anywhere, except nowhere.

KISS, I hope you read this with an open mind. Those links you provided prove nothing, all the evidence given can easily be faked. It would be more to the point if this device had undergone a series of scientific tests under controlled conditions. And do not say that science is against this guy, that is the refuge of the con artist. Since elctrolysis is the use of electrical energy to break apart the hydoren and oxygen molecules in water, the exact opposite would be to use energy to create water from free hydrogen and free oxygen. I don't know the technical term for the process but I've always heard it called "burning hydrogen" and it has been around for decades at least.

In the Middle Ages there was a chess-playing machine that beat many human players, even some very good ones. The games were public and watched to make sure that the owner of the machine wasn't making the moves himself. He wasn't. It wasn't until much later that the midget inside the machine was discovered. He was an excellent chess player.

I thought the exact opposite would be to combine oxygen and hydrogen into water while producing power - wait, that actually happens when the hydrogen is burned. 😛

Well it seems that not to many took notice in the chemistry/physics lessons at school. A known fact petrol EXPLODES UNDER COMPRESSION. Hydrogen IMPLODES ON IGNITION. Now you would know the fastest burning substance in the world is HYDROGEN
If I Released 20 litres of Hydrogen into a workshop and reached into my pocket took out a box of matches an lit one I would still be here as hydrogen would be forced being the lightest material known to man to the top or ceiling instantly any small cracks etc and it would have escaped to the atmosphere with in 30 seconds NO BOOM i'm sorry but the petrol would burn for some time producing a noctious gas and smell of petrol.

Now just how do you convert a petrol engine to run on hydrogen -- quite easily --- Weather you have a cylinder of hydrogen or a Water to hydrogen/oxygen converter the same thing operates.

The Petrol Engine. Because of the slow burning speed of petrol so that a spark will detonate the petrol gas in the cylinder under compression ths spark has to be set at about 12mm/ 1/2in before TDC to allow the motor to run. Now remember the facts of Hydrogen - the fastest butning substance in the world -- needs the compressed gas to be ignighted just before TDC or at TDC - remember Hydrogen IMPLODES and produces Water in the cylinder head. Now comes the clever part. Fact Water Boils at 100deg C (a small diversion, if you have a small compressor to blow your tyres up you will find the input will be cool but the output hose will be warm to very hot - no not friction - the temperature enflicted by compression up to 450deg C. How ever let us return to the petrol engine of the common car the compression at about 8 to 9 to 1 will produce up to 300deg C. water boils @ 100deg C so we have instant steem and more but the steem bufs will tell you super heated steem is about 250deg C. and we have a compressed temp of about 350deg C. we have lift off with super heated steam. Now to those who want to run both petrol and hydrogen you have a timing problem which would have to be able to be changed at the same time as you change over. To get the Hydrogen delivered economically use the Joe-Cell system it works with less than 4 amps at 12 volts at start and will generate hydrogen to power a V8 4 litre engine with ease (130km on a cup and a half of water as described in one of the videos.) have yet to test it but it runs the honda 11hp genset 15amps at 240v over night on a cup of water. By the way the energy from hydrogen will deliver up to 60% more than petrol and leave no polutants other than water. Try it out and Join Us with free Fuel.

Darryl, yes hydrogen will produce only water at a by-product, however, energy from hydrogen does not produce 60% more than petrol. One unit of energy is the same as any other unit of energy. Unless you were trying to say a given amount of hydrogen will produce 60% more energy than petrol. Wrong. If anything it is the other way round. The more complex the molecule the greater energy that can be released from it. Simple physics. And as far as the Joe-Cell goes, start talking about it once it passes some scientific tests. Until then, I don't believe your claims.

HYDROGEN Generators.

Learn Charybdis in Hell on Mon Jun 11, 2007. The Joe-Cell for Charybdis in Hell should do some research and come up to the level of 2007 not year 1807. Now he asks why the governments don't go for it, very simple they would get no money from its use no excise/taxes on water.

The oil companys control many governments around the world - they even have wars about Oil.

By the way the Joe-Cell is a very simple system utilising 316/7 stainless steel tubing and from 1.6mm to 4mm wall thickness the tubes
ranging from center pin at 12mm to 14mm and spaced evenly tubes 10mm larger in say 5,7,9,11 steps (12mm +, 22mm -, 32mm +, 42mm -, 52mm +, 62mm -, 72mm +, 82mm -,)
the interesting thing about this process is quite simple. Let us put the system together using air as the electrolite and the tubes are each insulated from each other and we connect say the negative from a battery to the center and the positive to the outer tube. you have now charged a capacitor. now whot would happen if we measured the voltage at the intermediate tubes we would have an equal voltage drop on each plate from the center to the outer tube showing an actual capacitor.
Now let us put some water in the mix and cover the plates of the capacitor and again apply the power to the center pin and the outer tube as before after a few seconds the current will drop to below 4 amps and from then on always stay below 4 amps. you will notice that a froth has formed on the top of the capasitor this gas is hydrogen and oxygen. how does it happen well if you understand that water and it has to be the purest you can get it will work , water is an insulator so whot is happening can be explained this simple.
The capacitor is subjected to a catistropic failure as the stainless steel plates cannot change like the foil wrapped capacitors in the old TV sets of yester year that used to fail caused a gooy confetty to be spread inside the TV case.
This failue in the capacitor converts water to hydrogen and oxygen. So with this free almost hydrogen being delivered to the intake of the engine you have hydrogen system powered energy.
The cylinders placed in a glass beaker which a large lid can be arrached with an outlet tube and a screw plug to top up the water level and a tube fed into the air cleaner towards the air flow valve, timing set petrol turned off, turn the key on for 5 seconds then start the engine it will run now re adjust the timing by ear you will hear the engine run sweetly lock it up, give it a few revs, watch the glass with the warer and plates they will make the water very fizzy and when it is running dis connect the battery from the cell and provided the engine is 3,500 rpm or more the engine will runwith out power to the cell - so take that for a spare alternator or two. (do a Google on Joe-Cell and get up to date and physically make one instead of pulling things to pieces with out even leaving your keyboard and computer.)

Christopher Cole in Tucson, AZ on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 07:55 AM

Thank you for allowing me to be critical of you who have not even tried to make it work, like the bee cannot fly and because nobody told it,it couldn't, it flys, and the 2stroke motor, those polutant motors theoretically will not work, so when you cut the lawn or hear a chain saw running tell them it is not possible, I dare you to try this out instead of waisting energy critisising what you are lacking in knowledge.

One reasearch the subject as I did 35 years ago, but it took 3 years on the internet to find out how it works, and like I was told change your idea's and make one and you will be surprised how it works. I will give you any assistance you may need, just ask me if you dare.

Hate to tell you this Darryl, but the flight characteristics of a bee aren't a mystery to science. Maybe you should do some learning of your own first.

I'll put this in caps since people seem to miss it.

NOBODY IS SAYING HYDROGEN VEHICLES DON'T/WON'T WORK!

There, was that clear enough for you?

The argument is that it isn't efficient enough to beat the cost of oil. Will it ever? Probably. Is it worth pursuing? Definitely. But right now hydrogen powered vehicles (real ones, not the fantasy ones that people keep harping on) are just more expensive to own and operate. You haven't changed that fact with your post, sorry.

Darryl Thiselton, some of my background: My father was an Electrical Engineer and I spent most of my adult life in electronics. I grew up learning about capacitors and worked with them for twenty years. A capacitor will store DC energy and filter AC energy. It isn't a miracle device. Show me some scientific proof that your Jow=Cell will work as you claim. Until then, since you do not seem to have an undersgtanding of basic electrical physics, don't blame me when I question your miracle device.

A car alternator only uses about one horsepower.

People fearing hydrogen is like worrying about cuts from a butter knife, gasoline it the sharp knife. Gasoline IS highly explosive when there are gas fumes, but in liquid state it doesn't normally burn. Hydrogen is basically the same way except hydrogen is less likely to explode than gasoline.

Oh! When I was in school (Late 70's), we studies alternative energy sources. I read numerous articles on hydorgen powered vehicles... We even saw a movie showing then driving a hydrogen powered Gremlin. So hydrogen powered cars work, but do they last???

Actually, the question is not whether or not hydrogen powered engines work, nor if hydrogen is economical to make or not. It is easily produced with common household lye, water and aluminum (trash aluminum cans), none which has any substantial cost. The real obstacles here is how to meter the aluminum into the soloution so that hydrogen is not being produced once the vehicle is stopped, causing a release of flamable hydrogen, and exactly how to "wet" the hydrogen so that the metals do not break down due to inpingment as the hydrogen implodes as it burns. It seems that most people on this board argue rather than discuss and move forward. Doesn't it make more sense to offer positive input rather than negative?

So many of you people don't know waht you are talking about Sorry to say it .
I built a vapor carb and drove my old Limo at 65 miles per hour . They said I was crazy but I got the last laugh last . they say it takes a lot of power to make Hydrogen then I will ask this why do they calim to making it in glass jar by using 12 volts dc . Now some one is not telling the truth .
Let us not fool each other but try to help each other so we can beet the high price of gas and cause a revolt on the oil companies

Just a few points, first, hydrogen can be stored by absorption into certain metal alloys that result in higher storage densities than liquid hydrogen.
Web site: http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/storage/metal_hydrides.html

the second is hydrogen can run in gasoline engines with some modification.
Web site:
http://www.omnitekcorp.com/hydrogen.htm

While this kit may be fake it does not mean the idea is. However unless you find a clean source for the hydrogen it makes no difference.

Hi All
Well yes the formation of hydrogen in certain metals is already concieved costs money to produce and would be as or more expensive than petrol.

If you realise that water can be carried and obtained in 500ml or 1 litre containers and drank if the driver is thirsty then it is the right product to be using, and what is the result of the use in the car after it has been converted to hydrogen and oxygen -- WATER so we have lost nothing.

A few more of you must stop theorising and do some practical experiments -- you will be very excited with the results and you should put your results here for all to see.

As I have explained the conversion in the car and how it works (the Steem Engine Principal)

It is not difficult so why complicate the proceedure make a container with a lid Glass Jar and place 4 plates in the jar the centre one connect to the negative of 12 volts the outer to the positive have the plates (tubes) insulated from each other. then fill the jar to about 1" of the top and about 3" above the plates 6" high in a 12" glass jar (plastic is no good it shrinks/and can expand when you decillerate.)

You have hydrogen oxygen gas flow at atmosphere pressure. fit a connection to the lid of the jar so a tube abour 3/8 id and connect it to the inlet between the air cleaner and the air butterfly make it a good seal as we need the engine vaccume to make it work well.

Place a positive and negative terminal in the lid, the plates are connected to the under side with wire, and add a wire to the negative to the engine or battery negative. the positive to the positive of the battery -- leave for about 20 seconds the fist time then try and start the engine it should run now rev the engine and see the additional gas being generated with the vaccuume now being applied by the engine.

Walla the thing works -- provided no leaks etc.

Let me know how you go, mine took a little tweeking with the spark -- buggar the oil companies.

Now adjust the spark of the engine to Top Dead Center mount the jar so it wil not fall out or over.

Make sure the petrol line is disconnected at the carby or PI rail try and run the car to remove all petrol and seal the engine end.

Darryl Thiselton in South Australia you say you will help people set this up - what is your email, I'm prepared to see this working, and try it out if it does. Post your email or even a temporary email so we can get in touch with you and chat privately.

Hey there guys I got this great guide that teaches you about making a hydrogen powered car http://run-your-car-on-water.blogspot.com/

Hi All

Just a call up to let you know some more miths with HYDROGEN
1. It is the lightest nateral element known to man
2. Unlike all other material if burnt or detonated it IMPLODES and leaves a residue of WATER
3. If it is stored in a cylinder like say oxygen and had to be refilled when empty you would be carrying a HYDROGEN BOMB. Just get a small cylinder of Hydrogen and place a 1/4 stick of dynamite and a 4ft slow burn fuse and detinator to the side of the cylinder of Hydrogen. now set the fuse and get the hell out of there. The resulting Bang will be heard 10miles away. however back at the detination point all the ground, trees and loose objects up to 500yards will show that the forces are indeed travelling to the detination point, the trees nearby will loose their leaves movable objects moved to the detination point and the ground was bare for 200yards around the detination point.

NO Hydrogen must be generated on demand or as required not stored in a cylinder.

Christopher Cole you have made a point about capacitors -- well prove me wrong I dare you.

Tom in Maryland / Walter M Green III /John Swansey in Wako
Thanks but read up on the subject goto http://www.youtube.com and search for Hydrogen generators, hydrogen powered cars,hydrogen cells, and Free Power. When I first started this research there was about 50 entries now ther are over 5000 entries. See actual film clips of sucesses.

Michael L in Houston
Just about what we would have expected another terrorist bom method - once started you cannot stop it - it has to complete its own cycle.

M Power in Sydney
well if you must contact me try .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) you might get a surprise - leave your phone no in the Email

and my sola pannels 16 of them produce about 12.5 ah during daylight hrs and turn the meter backwards but save me about A$750.00 per Quarter or about $3000.00 per annum its the way to go. I need another 2 units to get 15amps input. My inverter is a marine 15amp unit.

Hi All Again No4

The myths about running a car on Hydrogen.

Yes pure Hydrogen produces the best power and performance in your converted petrol engine, but the bomb threat worries me with the Hydrogen Cylinders in an accident.

However if we use Browns Gas - The gas generated using say Joe Cell or similar then we have the right mix of Hydrogen and Qxygen as reqquired by the engine. the water is by far the safest fuel to carry HYDROGEN and it will also quench your thirst.

Now Let us concieve the thought of running your car on Browns gas generated as required no danger of implosion here.

Just how does the engine run using Hydrogen --

Not many people really know some say the same as petrol -- WRONG

You must do more research into the internal combustion engine to get the resulting information -- firstly the internal combustion engine has friction all through the engine which generates heat.

Now connect an electric motor to a say 4 cylinder water cooled petrol engine and run the electric motor for about 2 hours no petrol or ignition the engine will attain a working temperature which will show the temperature about 2/3 that of normal working with petrol. HOW COME THE HIGH TEMPERATURE.

Water boils at 100deg Celcius
The compression of air in the cylinders will exceed 350 deg C snd with petrol can get to 500 deg C

Now we know that when hydrogen is burnt water is formed by creating a vaccume no oxygen and no Hydrogen gasses.

The piston in the near Top Dead Center of the power stroke we ignight the hydrogen -- it forms WATER and accellerates the piston to the Top Dead Center creating more compression, but the temperature is abve boiling point and we have STEAM Superheated Steam.

The Steam forces the piston down to repeat the cycle of a 4 stroke engine.

Now the engine temperature will be less than the petrol engine in normal working conditions but with HYDROGEN it actually runs cooler -- no hydrogen will burn outside the piston chamber as it was all burnt in the chamber, the exhaust will get hot due to the super heated Steam being expelled and the exhaust output will be unpoluting water.

Browns Gas Produces up to 80% more power than Petrol when used in a Petrol Engine.

Will it last Just ask an old Steam Engineer how long the steam pistons last on a steam engine.

There is no carbon to wear the bore the piston runs cooler than petrol and no need for fancy stainless steel valves, most pistons today are aluminium alloy no rust the bore is lubricated by the piston rings.

Read More and observe the things arround you.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Happy Hydrogen Users (Browns Gas) 2008

This site has lots of ways to save money on gas and electrical for home and business.

Yes a hydride can store more hydrogen than a liquid fuel. Seems like it doesn't make sense but some lithium based hydrides hold more than 40% more hydrogen than liquid hydrogen. Remember just because it's a liquid it doesn't mean there isn't alot of "space" between atoms. The problem with the hydrides which I believe Bob is telling the truth is durability. Remember looking past all the alien stuff he's a brilliant scientist and there is more truth to him being in the "nuclear" field than people who say he wasn't.

I have read the form and i think you have all already awnsered it but i just wanted to clarify, would it be safe to run a mixture of hydrogen and gasoline, or Diesel being that its 4 dollors up here.

Deisel Hydrogen / Petrol Hydrogen
It works well and you have another deisel powered steem Engine running, or petrol powered steem engine. and it works very well.

Well to get the answer have a look on youtube.com hydrogen cars -- deisel runs very well with a joe cell producing hydrogen on demand and will give you up to 70% more power and up to 50% more MPG or k/litre. So this can be added to a normal petrol car and it will improve your MPG or L/100km -- so lets see some of you out there make one or 2 Joe Cell's and install them in your cars -- there are now a couple of cars in Adelaide with magnetic stickers saying :-
"Powered by Water"

Your next step is to run the engine on Browns Gas the gas generated by the Joe Cell only.

Well I have tried Termi-Mesh ( the same as used to keep out whire ants ) and cooking strainers. Well It started out ok but soon the plates shorted from junk in the water.

I had to put a container 60 litres on the bench make up a joe cell and insert it for several days -- The water had an orange brown crust on the top - and a crey to black mullick floating around the bottom -- I let it stand for 2 days after the power was switched off -- (still around 1 amp when running ) and syphoned from the center about 20 litres of water - it tasted clean and was exceptionally clear. A friend of mine is doing an experiment using sea water and he tells me that his first attempt on about 3 litres the heavy salts settled at the bottom the algy etc floated to the top as a brown scale but the water syphoned from the center was desalinated and drinkable. -- he is now running a 60 litre container and is about 3 days in the run, will know more at the end of the week or early next week how it turns out -- could be a method of desalinisation -- you never know.

Now how about some of you trying out the joe cell unit and putting your results on this media - and others can learn from your mistakes. (boy did I make some in the early days using nylon spacers, nylon does not work as it obsorbes dirty water and shorts out, and up goes the current nearly 20 amps)

By the way the bubbles from the clean water seem more efferessent when rising -- so it works better and harder. - more gas.

The termy-mesh with clean water is still running after 3 days and still about 0.9 amps @ 12volts.

The bubbles are clear and when a match is placed near them they go bang very loud - something tells me that it is working.

Clean water is the answer for good results.

That is very good to know, thanks for sharing your information. Since the clean water produces more hydrogen, then maybe the electrolyzer needs to have a pump and filter to keep the water clean?

This is a subject I'm very interested in, unfortunately I'm into a completely different profession so my participation will be limited. I know we're all trying to fuel our vehicles with something other than oil, and the whole subject seems to be glued to the war and very hard to disagree with. Unfortunately I'm not aware of any credible source of information that would indicate this. I think I've stumbled upon the right group of people here, so could someone direct me to something that might inform me better? Thanks.

After reading all these posts, about the only thing I've learned is that the real issues are mechanics, they're financial. It makes sense that ultimately hydrogen cannot power the devices to produce they hydrogen on which it runs--I believe that would be called a perpetual motion device? (I'm not an engineer, so I'm not sure about that one). But it seems to me that if a device (engine) could convert water to hydrogen then back to water, that it could effectively turn that water by-product back into hydrogen, in effect, the tail pipe funnels back into the water tank. Obviously, this is not possible, but it seems to be the logical extension of the theories.

Having said that, the reality seems to be what has been stated NUMEROUS times in these posts: Hydrogen Engines ARE FEASIBLE, but they are still more expnesive to operate than fossil fuels--hence, the real issue is not mecahincal, but financial. Storage may or may not be a problem; frankly I think it's a matter of altitude: gasoline will blow me x feet into the air if the tank explodes, as opposed to a hydrogen tank blowing me x*5 feet into the air (though death is not like altitude, it's more a binary proposition, as I understand it).

As much as I hate the oil companies (and I do), they will ultimately HAVE to be part of the solution from a purely economic and logistical reality perspective. In order for Hydrogen to be viable, then some one will have to be able to mass produce it, THEN he will have to have a massive infrastructure to transport, store, and deliver it to consumers (that is, a well established point of sale network). Right now and for the relevant future, the only industry that has this in place is the oil industry, who can leverage what they have.

I came on to this site because I would like to not be slave to the oil compnies and OPEC. But it seems clear that until the economics (as well as physics) are addressed, any effort to do so will be more of an exercise in principle--one that will required a financial premium to utilize (I'm facing the same problem with wanting off the electrical grid: I can install wind generators, but the benefit will be having power when the lines go down, but I will pay a premium for that luxury).

Of course, I'm not an overly educated person, and I might have completely misunderstood all these posts... Just my opinions, you mileage may vary...

JUST A COMMENT ON HYDROGEN CONVERTION KITS , AS I UNDERSTAND THE HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN BEING PRODUCED ARE ONLY INCREASING THE OCTANE OF THE GASOLINE SO YOU DONT NEED TO RUN THE ENGINE ON PURE HYDROGEN THAT IS NOT WHAT THE KITS DO , ALSO THAT COMPANY YOU TALKED ABOUT IS NOT MAKING HYDROGEN CONVERSION KITS LIKE THE ONES THAT YOU HOOK UP TO TH CAR BATTERY , THEY ARE MAKING SPECIAL HYDRIDE TANKS THAT ABSORVE HYDROGEN AND CONTAIN IT THEIR UNTIL BEEDED THE TANKS ARE FILLED SEPARATELLY FROM ANOTHER SOURCE WHEN EMPTY ??? YOU SHOULD LOOK UP THE MAN THAT MADE AN ENGINE THAT RUNS ON HYDROGEN PEROXIDE AND SUGAR THAT IS SOME INVENTION AND IT DOES WORK , WHEN YOU COMBINE SUGAR AND PURE HYDROGEN PEROXIDE YOU GET TREMENDOUS AMOUNTS OF HEAT DOES CREATING STEAM THAT DRIVED THE ENGINE ???

seen it,done it, it works (imaging if no one bought fuel anymore)

J, above makes my eyes bleed. CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL!

it's an interesting idea.... but i think the problems with hydrogen storage may lead to more headaches (or fires) than benefits.

Hi All

To those who think they know all -- then I suggest the theorizers actually do something positive. Get some SS tube and make a kit or buy the parts and put it together.

Since the last time I made comments a few new changes have happened.

The first and biggest was the changing of the size of the tube from the hydrogen generator to the Engine before the throttle butterfly. our previous tubes have been 1/2" ID and reasonable results were obtained, but increasing the tube to 1" tubing the whole gambet changed. The starting of the engine previously after the 30second wait for the gas to generate is now virtually gone.
With the larger tube the gas in the jar could be seen to be evaporating during the rotation of the engine, and about 3 revolutions it fired up and run. we then found we had to make fine adjustments to the timing and all was fine.

Second feature of the larger tube, it was found that the engine seemed to run more smoother and virtually all knocks etc dissapeared.
The starting was smoother and more reliable, less rotations of the motor and that the plates even when normally just covered with water worked well but we did not realise that with only about 1/4 of the water in the Joe Cell it allowed the engine to run as if it was full with water.

Now how about this no need to call on the service Station/Gas Station any more. 100% water power.

Solution to some of the comments Build a Joe Cell and put a large tube 1" or 25mm from the hydrogen generator and the engine and seal the fuel pipe off.

CAUTION do not put to much water in the JOE CELL the water vapour may quench the spark plugs when you rev the engine, due to the amount of gas being delivered under the Vaccume condition.


More details are being recorded and will be posted when avaliable.

Hi Again 6

Well it seems that in this world od financial pressure with the USA, Europe, and the rest of the world going into a recession, it is good to look at what people did to survive in the 30's and then during the second World War till 1947. How they made their cars run with a shortage of Petrol. They had coal gas bags carried above the car roofs to provide the fuel to travel, then we saw gas producers fitted to the back of the cars to produce the gas to drive the engine. We also found in the 50's the fitting of water vaper injectors being used to improve the MPG - L/P km well John Swansey is correct. It did improve the process of getting more bang for your buck - less toxic emition and the engine ran more sweeter. the warer converted to steem and gave the engine a boost in power, so less petrol was used.

Transporting Compressed Hydrogen cylinders about is a nasty way of having this fuel on board of a vehicle. Just imagine what would happen if the cylinder erupted and ignited in a car accident.

Hydrogen bombs were called the clean bombs, Because they were detonated about 500 feet above ground and removed all the oxygen from the air covering upto 5 square miles as the danger zone all creaturs who depend upon oxygen would Die as it would take upto 30-60 minutes for the atmosphere to replace the oxygen burnt when the bomb went off. Infrustructure would be in general un harmed and all living creatures would be dead.

The only safe way of carrying hydrogen is by the safe method of water.

Why has this system been kept from the public for so long.

1. The governments around the world have placed Fuel taxes on Petrolium Products, and in some countries this is a substantial form of revenue.
They would have to tax Water for the survival of all living creatures.

FACT all the water that is on the earth today was here when the earth was formed, and will be the same water in another 100,000 years. Less what is lost in space travel.

2 The Question of storing Hydrogen using metals and other substances by Gavin Nelson is a bit to costly to ecomically produce and this is why it will never succeed.

3 The "Joe Cell" and various adeptations is a very good example of how to make the capacitance discharge system work, of having the Hydrogen/Oxigen (browns gas) mixture avaliable on demand in a safe method of transport and use.

4 Most cars require about 13% fuel to air mixture to burn in a 4 stroke engine. Hydrogen/oxygen gas mix would consume about 50% less or 6-7% to air for the same bang in a 4 stroke engine.

5 Most manufacturers of kits have made a very bad decision to transport the hydrogen/oxygen from the generator to the engine. They normally use tubing of inside diameter of around 1/4 inch. This is by far the worst size one could use to make it function properly. The Joe Cell collecting tube should be incerted between the Joe Cell and as close to the intake Butterfly.