A Meditation on the Speed Limit

Over here in Belgium, we have system called "Blokrijden" (Blockdriving). When there is a lot of traffic (due to the start of the holiday season or something) the police limit the speed on the highway by driving in front of traffic, just as these students did. The cars will drive closer together forming a "block" of cars. The capacity of the highway is increased, and there is less chance for a traffic jam, and less chance for accidents, since every car moves at the same speed. This works pretty effective over here.

Yeah.. but you forget that over here in the US, people take it as a god-given right to be able to drive as insane as they want. I live within reasonable distance of Highway 680, where the joke runs that you either travel 6 or 80... (speed limit is 65)

Personally, I've always felt that the term 'speed limit' should be changed to read 'Maximum Safe Speed'. Gets the point across a bit better, I think. Though you know some idiot - probably in my home state of California - is going to sue after getting in a lower-speed accident on the basis that they thought it would be completely safe.

I'm sure it was annoying being stuck behind a bunch of self righteous students, but they did prove that those behind them were breaking the law, as they all must have been speeding(i.e breaking the law), to have caught them up and create such a massive tailback.

The way I look at speed limit is this: Just because your car can get to a certain speed doesn't mean you have the reflex to handle it. This may come as a damage to "manhood" for many people because somehow fast driving has become something of a macho thing.

I've always had used cars, two of them VW bugs, and those things can hardly go over 60 if I REALLY tried.

So let's say the speed limit is 75 now, what about all the cars thatn can't reach that fast or the people who can't handle that speed?

Some may not give a shit about their lives but who came along and decide certain people should drive faster then anyone else and possibly endanger other people's lives?

Okay, let's say let's take it all away comepletly, 0 speed limit, people can drive as fast as they want.

Then what if some people comes along and decide we SHOULD have speed limit and pull a same stunt and all drive down the highway going 15 mph, what then?

I drive fire trucks for a living. If someone died in a fire because these jerks were causing a traffic jam, someone would be pretty damn mad.

I'd also like to say that driving on the shoulder or in the grass for an emergency vehicle is not always such a good or safe idea. It slows down our response time and makes things a little more dangerous for the fire truck and the crew inside. Weight constantly shifts around due to the water inside the tank. Driving halfway in a ditch and getting stuck or rolling over would not be a fun experience for the fire dept. If we cant get there in a safe and efficent manner, then we can't help our public.

I understand how you feel Aaron, but "what if" your house was on fire and we couldnt get there because of something like this? You'd probably be upset, right? Regardless of the fact that they were driving the speed limit, they have no right to endanger other people's lives or property by purposly causing a traffic jam.

Regarding the total gridlock scenario...emergency responders are also allowed to use the lane of opposite flow of traffic to arrive on scene, however, this is very dangerous and should not be done unless you are passing. On a highway/freeway this is sometimes impossible. Also, the trucks on scene probably caused the gridlock. When there is an accident on a street, we usually set up our fire trucks in a way to block the lanes close to the accident with the fire truck, thus keeping the emergency area safe. Dont want a firefighter getting hit by a passing motorist when he/she is trying to help someone. This has happened before in the past, and that is why we now block the lanes with our trucks. Hopefully there's a way for traffic to go around us, but if not, it's ok because safety is the main issue here.

"But your stuck...the only way to not break that law is to break another. Catch-22."

If they were'nt causing a traffic jam, then no one would have to break the law to pass them.

Sorry, I'd like to add one more thing. I was given a ticket once for driving the speed limit in the passing lane. The officer told me that lane was for passing people that were "slow to the right"
I guess he meant people passing on the left were to break the speed limit? Whether or not he was being legit with me, or just filling his quota for the day....a cop told me to break the speed limit when passing.

Carbon emissions too - 55mph is a pretty good median for the most efficient speed for most cars to go at in terms of fuel consumption. It's the speed I drive on motorways and duel carriageways (where the limit is 70). SF Gate article on this:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/10/19/MNG3NFAOF11.DTL

As mentioned previously, slowing down can increase the number of cars that can 'fit' on the road, and can actually deacrease congestion.

Apart from emergency vehicales - what the hell is the rush? Is it such a huge deal to leave a few minutes earlier? As far as commercial vehicles are concerned, you won't be impeding them, as most will have speed limiters so they can't exceed the speed limit.

"Apart from emergency vehicales - what the hell is the rush?"

Well, someone's life is in danger, that's what the rush is all about. Yeah, sure, let's just stroll on over there after lunch. It's only someone's life, right? They'll get another one, I'm sure!

"Is it such a huge deal to leave a few minutes earlier?"

I dont know if this was directed towards emergency responses, but if it was, its clear you dont work in such a type of job.
An emergency can happen at any time and any place. There is no option to "leave a few minutes earlier" When the call comes in - you go NOW!
"Yeah, someone's house is going to catch on fire in 30 minutes! Let's leave early and get there before it happens!" Yeah, right. Not going to happen.

The whole reason to "rush" to the scene of the emergency is to get there as soon as possible. It is an emergency, after all.

Oops, didnt see the "apart" there - I apologise! My mistake! I guess I was kind of enraged thinking someone would think an emergency is no big deal. Sorry about the mix up! 😊

Simple logic dictates that this bunch of jack-asses also had to break the law to set this blockade up in the first place. There is no way anybody is going to convince me that these dick wads didn't speed to set this thing up, as at some point the three vehicles not in the slow lane had to travel faster to pass for the set up. In other words, the guy in the far left lane was speeding the fastest.

Throw the book at these idiots...

Thank God I don't live in America, that's all I can say.
Has anyone considered what would have happened if this thing wasn't planned and four cars just happened to all be travelling at the speed limit in four lanes? Would you say they were breaking the law? They weren't deliberately setting out to impede traffic, but it may have happened.
And I think it's quiet ridiculous that you people think 55 miles an hour to be slow. Thats almost 90kms an hour. 75 miles an hour is 120 kms an hour. In most states in Australia, 110km/hour is the maximum speed allowed on any road, even when crossing the Nullabor and that's a bloody long way.
I think you people need to just slow down a bit and enjoy life before it slips away from you.

I'll just sit back and now and wait for the comments telling the Aussie hick to keep her nose out of it 😊

Well said Nettie, well, I kinda wish you did live in the states but thats not relevant 😊

In my opinion, public roadways are not the place for any sort of demonstration. If one of the people who had gotten fristrated and passed on the shoulder had suddenly encountered a broken down vehicle or worse yet, a person walking down the shoulder this incident would have turned into a tragedy rather than the ridiculous and moronic "demonstration" it was.

The true crimes are the abhorrent production values of that video, and the obnoxious, self-absorbed sense of importance.

I wish I believed that all you guys getting het up about the potential slowing of emergency vehicles were really angered by that... my gut feeling though is that it's more what Alex has the decency to admit when he says "this is probably the angry driver inside of me feeling that way."

I f***ing hate the way that drivers - unlike people in almost any other context - seem to believe they have a god-given right to break the law.

Even if they were following the letter of the law (which they probably weren't), these four kids still went out and intentionally disrupted traffic and inconvenienced many people, and it would have taken very little to have turned the whole stunt into a tragedy. There are other, better ways that they could have made their point.

The thing that most of you seem to be ignoring is that they caused a traffic jam. Regardless of speed limit, they initiated a prank that impeded the normal flow of traffic as per the law.

Besides, I don't think they ended up proving anything other than their own stupidity.

I'd also like to add that the video sucked as an example of filmmaking.

That Aussie hick needs to get a life!! hehe, someone had to say it. 😉

Be smart people -- this law, at it's core, is designed to prevent people from causing a jam by impeding the normal flow of traffic. The normal flow of traffic allows people to exceed the speed limit, legal or not. This law has be violated in spirit and in a premeditated fashion.

Obviously, you can find a wording error in any law. Let's say locale has a 'no weapons' rule, worded in a traditional fashion. You have a 6" lead pipe in your pocket. You are not breaking the law. However, when you close your fist around it and attack someone, you're employing it is a weapon, and you are breaking that law. By using the speed limit to intentionally create a blockade, you violate the clear purpose of the law. They may not be smart enough to recognize it, but that's no excuse.

No judge in his right mind would side with these students if this was in court -- it would create the opportunity for hundreds of people to do the same thing, create dangerous situations, and do it with impunity. Remember, the letter of the law isn't their whole life -- they are political animals too.

Technically right, morally right, irrelevant. The system would punish them if the opportunity presented itself and YOU ALL KNOW WHY, so quit arguing semantics.

-T

I think that you have helped them demonstrate the absurdity of the current laws, Alex. Your legal cite shows that it is illegal to not break the law. And that is absurd.

This seems very like what happens when a single police cruiser drives along in normal traffic. Suddenly everyone is a model citizen and has no reason to speed around the cop.

This is not civil disobedience. If they broke the law, they did it unintentionally. THerefore it was simply a pointed prank. Calling this CD really brings down actual CD.

SO what do they want? Drive 100 mphs or more? Then let them go drive for NASCAR see how damn good they are. Fast driving=accidents. No ifs, ands or buts.

This has been done before. I remember 10 or 15 years ago a group of MPH activists pulled the same stunt in Michigan along I-696 or I-96. But, I can't find any references to back this up.

So driving 55mph is illegal now? I'm with the students here, but then again I live in Los Angeles so going 55mph would be a godsend. How can you be blocking traffic if no one can legally travel faster than you? The "side-by-side" is just a technicality saying you have to allow other people to violate the law and as such the students would be guilty.

I think the Georgia laws shows the hypocracy in the 55mph laws, viz. it was a law implemented by the FEDERAL government. Wait, the Feds can't make a law like that can they? True, but they promised to withhold Federal Highway Trust funds from states that did not implement a 55mph limit. Georgia is in the position a lot of states are - they need to have a 55mph limit law on the books but they'd prefer not to. Note the use of "normal flow of traffic" and "normal speed of traffic"

A few years ago I did the math -- it's not rational to speed (as a private person) unless you're going long distances, because it doesn't gain you anything.

If you're on a highway which is 55 mph, yet you travel it at 65 mph, you'll get to your destination around 10 minutes sooner, If You Travel For An Hour. If you're on a trip of 4 or more hours, the time adds up to a noticeable amount.

If your time on the highway at 65 is only 10 minutes, you'll get to your destination perhaps a minute earlier, but with a lot more stress and chance of accident as you dodge around other cars.

It's stupid to speed on local trips.

"How can you be blocking traffic if no one can legally travel faster than you? The "side-by-side" is just a technicality saying you have to allow other people to violate the law and as such the students would be guilty."


Sorry, but this is textbook BS. I may have missed it if anyone mentioned it before, but no one had to violate the law to pass them. No one could legally travel faster than them, but one or more of them could certainly travel slower. They were in violation of side-by-side, as all one of them had to do was slow to 53mph. Of course, with the situataion they created, it'd be a bull rush to get through that lane. Anyone remember a Who concert in 1981?

Apparently, the Georgia Department of Transportation does not think the kids did anything wrong. David Spear, a spokesman for the state Department of Transportation, said if the students weren't blocking emergency vehicles and were going the speed limit, "they didn't do a thing wrong."

Here's a link to the story:

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/atlanta/stories/0303metfilm.html

I think y

...This is 3 pages long already, and I really only read the first page...but I'll post anyway, possibly repeating someone.

The kids are retarded, although, I'm glad they did what they did.

I drive to work on a 45 mph rdwy, and then a 50 mph hwy. On the first 4 miles of the 45 mph rdwy there is a construction zone & the speed limit has changed to 25 mph. People try to pass me, (b/c I am going exactly 25) and in turn, are endangering opposing traffic. They are also endangering ME. If they start to pass, and realize they can't get around me b/c of oncoming traffic...they're going to try and move back in their lane. They can't go onto any shoulder - there isn't one. The road is blocked in by barriers on either shoulder. The lanes have also been skinnied up to give the construction crews more room.

The speed limit is the TOP speed you can drive in PERFECT conditions. The appropriate distance is one car length between vehicles on dry roadways, and 2 on wet. It did not look like all those vehicles were following the law regarding distance, either.

That was sweet! The people who speed and put themselves and everyone in danger. Everyone should just chill out. They could have driven in a chevron pattern to make it leagal. Maybe that's what I'll do!!

I'm sure this point has been made, but what they did absolutely proves their point. Their "blockade" was absolutley legal because no one on the road other than emergency vehicles should be traveling faster than them. If everyone obeyed the posted speed limit there would be no traffic jam at all, but because NO ONE ON THAT ROAD OBEYS THE LIMIT, the traffic jam occured.

Also, they did this during the middle of the day specifically to avoid ruining the morning or evening rush hour.

I think the point is the absurdity of enforcement. It seems ludicrous for police to look the other way as people do 20 MPH over the limit (75, which is pretty much the average speed on that road when traffic moves freely), but write tickets for 12 or 15 over the limit on other roads. Why not make the limit 65 and write tickets for anything over 75?

As for upsetting the daily order of things...I'm sure whites in Selma, Alabama felt like you did during the bus boycott.

correction "majordawg", you should say "some whites felt like you did" or are you just stereotyping?

and once again, as far as the law, I don't care whether what they did was technically legal or illegal, public roadways are not the place for this type of stunt. Someone could have been hurt or killed, that is my issue with this.

I wonder how many of you actually drive in Atlanta? One of my favorite expressions here is "73 in a 55 isn't fast enough?" That's because, when I drive 73 (or even 79) miles per hour in the 55 mph speed limit section of road they filmed this on - I'm being passed by cars doing at least 10 mph faster than me! Yes, the 55 mph speed limit is stupid some times, but then so are drivers that insist on going too fast.

My grandmother lives in Atlanta and I visit her a couple times a year. Like Atlanta Driver said, I can be going 75 in a 55 and half the cars on the road are still whizzing past me. I used to be scared to drive in Atlanta and would have to let someone else take over when we started to get near the city.

I have to admit though that I am now over my fear of driving in Atlanta and actually look forward to it. I have developed a bit of a fondness for speed but am trying to curtail it. I think Atlanta is fun to drive now. That is when you aren't in 10 mile long backups maxing out at 17 mph.

I got pulled over doing 60 in a 55. Your first reaction is to think for speeding. no, I was pulled over going too slow, in metro Atlanta. No one does 55, NO ONE HERE ANYWAY.

Okay, I'm an Atlanta driver. And I agree completely with these kids. The speed limit on the perimeter is rediculous. 55 mph. Everyone goes 75-85 easy. And then one day its not okay to drive fast because some Cop needs to fill his quota. This video proves a point to Atlanta and should be an example to all cities that the speed limit needs to be changed because the day you get a ticket because you were traveling at a normal speed... you are now 20 over the speed limit and looking at license suspension. Congrats to the GA State students!

Just to give a final update on this matter, I just read an article in the AJC where they interviewed a guy from the Dept. of Transportation. He said that what they did was perfectly legal. Only if they had attempted to block emergency vehicles would it have been illegal. The students did have a contingency plan in case there were emergency vehicles or if any of them felt too threatened, etc.

As a personal sidebar, what difference does it make if people driving the speed limit (obeying the law) clog up traffic or an accident clogs up traffic? Even in the instance of emergency vehicles, neither makes it any more difficult for them to respond. In the event of an accident clogging up traffic, it makes it impossible for them to respond. As an Atlanta driver, this "road block" is no different from any other time of the day!

I really wish people would do this all over the US , the 55 & 65 posted limits would be raised to all the controlled access highways design speed of at least 75 mph over night .

Here , here good for them . 75 mph should be the posted limit on all interstates rural in the US . In thje middle of noware and otherwise .

I think many of you are missing the point the stupidity of the 55 mph posted limit on a highway where the 85 percentile is in the 75 mph range .

Which is what the road should be posted at . If traffic is heavy people will slow down to accomadate the extra traffic flow . Once the road empties it should be back up to 75 mph .

I've driven on those highways and anything below a 75 mph posted limit is just a money maker for the cities and the state of GA , and has nothing at all to do with safety NOTHING AT ALL !~!!!!!!

Oh by the way the NMSL was abbolished in December of 95 . Since that date any state can set any limit they wish on any highway they wish , or do like Montana did remove all limits on all roads for 6 years ( 95 to 01 ) .

So if GA wanted to they could post any highway whatever they wish 55 , 65 , 75 , 80 , 85 or No Speed Limit , it is completely up to the states now and has been for over 10 years .

If speed limits are for safety, on a level that prevents the 40,000 deaths/year from car accidents from being any greater, and yet people routinely break speed laws, than what is obviously needed is not higher speed laws, but devices in cars which won't let you drive faster than the speed limit.

We accept much tighter restrictions on our personal lives than speed-governers in the spirit of public safety, and with far less statistical surety; why not make it impossible to speed?

You can argue all you want, but they won't get prosecuted for this anyway. Can you really see this happening?

these kids are just nerd asses that never got dates in highschool and probably attend college and have no friends. Bunch of fags that take things to seriously.

this is definitly breaking the law. They cant disrupt what everyone is trying to do. Some people are trying to get to work and im pretty sure they got sued by those people for blockading.

OK, here's one more partially-informed opinion.
1. The first law of driving is really a principle, drive defensively and responsibly. All the specifics, including speed limits, not only flow from that, they come after that. Most state driving statutes start by saying that every driver is first responsible for driving in a manner that is consistent with ongoing road and weather conditions then and there. Any specific posted signs must be interpreted within that context.
2. While that usually ends up meaning "drive slower if the weather or general driving conditions make the legal limit unsafe," I believe it's possible to make a reasonable argument (see the emergency vehicles stuck at the back of the pack argument mentioned in another posting above) that boned-headed adherence could be considered a form of reckless driving. Since they were doing so in multiple vehicles as a group, that could be considered a conspiracy to obstruct traffic (especially emergency vehicles), so the crime could be worse. They wouldn't have to know an ambulance on call was being blocked -- how could they possibly know who was blocked far back in a traffic jam they intentionally caused? -- it's sufficient to show that they intentionally caused a traffic jam which a reasonable person should know would block any potential emergency vehicles.
3. Passing on the shoulder, recklessly trying to break up their blockade would not be legal, but that doesn't make their action right. A common fallacy in these sorts of discussions is to assume that if your favorite villain in the scenario is wrong, someone else must necessarily right. To the contrary, very often both or multiple parties are in the wrong. They would be wrong for blocking traffic (they AREN'T cops, enforcing the speed limit or any other specific statute one cares to obsess over is NOT THEIR JOB), and those breaking the law to pass them would also be wrong. Any judge would be free to exercise a certain amount of discretion in judging the seriousness on anyone's ticketed infractions in this situation.
4. Their political motivation may be interesting, but it is simply a form of civil disobedience, like blocking traffic with a demonstration against a war, abortion, etc. You should be commended for your political sincerity and motivation to uphold the democratic process AS you serve your appropriate sentence, commensurate with the infraction you engaged in. The government's agreement or disagreement with any political content to your message or action should be totally irrelevant to both the decision as to whether you broke the law, and how severe any punishment should be.

Can I post one more? The previous was one the legality of what they did, which I judge to be illegal (police could give a ticket for potentially obstructing emergency traffic, a judge could take the opportunity to give them all a good chewing out for taking the law into their own hands, then give them a nominal fine to ensure they don't his words off).

There are all sorts of laws out there, and the police must show some common sense in choosing which ones to enforce at a specific time and place. This is a matter of managing their own scarce resources as well as a matter of maintaining their own political legitimacy. Any experienced police officer, chief, or judge will probably tell you so "off-hours." I believe that's the way it should be in a democratic, free society. Police officers shouldn't waste their time with every minor infraction if it takes their attention away from observing the larger situation if it has the potential for more serious crimes being committed or the public peace being disturbed. This is true for traffic management, crowd control, political demonstrations, public security at buildings, etc. Drawing attention to a 55 mph speed limit is like drawing attention to the percieved injustice of jaywalking ordinances in downtown areas. As long as the police aren't making a big stink about it, you shouldn't either.
Living in a free society means being responsible for your own behavior, and not leaving your brain in a law book. Were the police in that area showing undue attention to the enforcement of an unrealistic law while obviously ignoring the enforcement of more serious crimes being committed under their noses? If no, then why choose this stunt? It really proves nothing.

By the way, there were multiple reasons for the 55 mph speed limit being set at that level back in the 1970's. One was to save gas (this was during the Arab Oil Embargo), because the faster you go, the greater the wind resistance your car encounters. Unfortunately, this law, like many of our laws, was put in place without sufficient explanation given to the public as to the rationale behind it. It might have been better recieved if the legislatures and excutives had bothered to publically explain the rationales behind it.

It amazes me how people are still arguing over the legailty of this when a spokesperson FOR THE STATE OF GEORGIA already said that THEY DID NOTHING WRONG!

Also, responding to joker...

"these kids are just nerd asses that never got dates in highschool and probably attend college and have no friends. Bunch of fags that take things to seriously."

I now quote from Billy Madison..."Mr. joker, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

And in response to Rick...nevermind...it would just take too long.