Million-Dollar Bill Tracts Seized

Status: Strange News
image Earlier this month the Secret Service raided the offices of the Great News Network (a Texas ministry) and seized 8300 inspirational tracts. The problem with the tracts? They were printed on million-dollar bills. I would say fake million-dollar bills, but since there's no such thing as real million-dollar bills, there can't exactly be fake ones either. However, the Secret Service felt they looked a little bit too much like real currency for comfort. Reportedly someone had tried to deposit one at a bank. Meanwhile, the Great News Network isn't happy and is threatening to sue the government. But they should realize the government has an extremely low tolerance for any kind of fake currency. Witness the case of J.S.G. Boggs (whom I write about in Hippo Eats Dwarf). He's an artist who creates counterfeit currency as art, though his bills are single-sided, so they're not likely to be mistaken for actual money. Nevertheless, the Secret Service raided his studio back in 1992 and seized thousands of his works, and haven't returned them to this day.

Incidentally, here's the tract that was written on the million-dollar bills. (You can try to purchase the bills here):
The million dollar question: Will you go to Heaven? Here's a quick test. Have you ever told a lie, stolen anything, or used God's name in vain? Jesus said, "Whoever looks upon a woman to lust after her has committed adultery already with her in his heart." Have you looked with lust? Will you be guilty on Judgment Day? If you have done those things God sees you as a lying, thieving, blasphemous, adulterer at heart. The Bible warns that if you are guilty you will end up in Hell. That's not God's will. He sent His Son to suffer and die on the cross for you. Jesus took your punishment upon Himself -"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." Then He rose from the dead and defeated death. Please, repent (turn from sin) today and trust in Jesus, and God will grant you everlasting life. Then read your Bible daily and obey it.
(Thanks to Joe for the link)

Business/Finance Religion

Posted on Tue Jun 13, 2006



Comments

"[...] read your Bible daily" -- you've got to love these guys! Where do I sign up?
Posted by Gutza  on  Tue Jun 13, 2006  at  01:37 AM
I am so going to hell 😊
Posted by Nettie  in  Perth, Western Australia  on  Tue Jun 13, 2006  at  07:29 AM
FYI...

I remember back in '68, Dick Gregory ran a grassroots campaign using simulated dollar bills, labeled as "1 vote for Dick Gregory" with his face instead of Washington.

The Secret Service got upset when some students discovered that the vending machines of the day treated them as real dollars!
Posted by Ldg  on  Tue Jun 13, 2006  at  03:35 PM
Hmm, the Great News Network apparently got their $1M bills from another organization called Living Waters.
The Living Waters web site now says, "Since the Secret Service seized our our Million Dollar Bill tracts in Texas, we have had a huge run on our supply in California."
... and "Our Million Dollar Bill tracts have been selling like hot cakes on a real cold day in Alaska. There is such a demand that we are not even able to take regular back-orders. Our printers are at present working around the clock, and should have a supply to us by Monday 19th June. However, for quantities of 10,000 or more, call [I'm deleting the number; let them do their own advertising]. We can have them sent to you directly from the printer (saving you about a week in delivery)."

So it would seem that being raided by the Treasury Department is very good for business.

By the way, the price is $5.00 for a pack of 100. Not a great price for simple-minded religious tracts, but pretty good for million-dollar bills.

Living Waters has another one, that might appeal more to MoH readers, called "The Wages of Sin." The front side says, "You Have Earned Your Wages." It's about time I got some acknowledgement. :cheese:
Posted by Big Gary  on  Tue Jun 13, 2006  at  04:44 PM
Whose picture is that on the front of the bill?
I can't read the name (if that's what it is) at the bottom.

It looks a lot like Grover Cleveland. But why him?
Posted by Big Gary  on  Tue Jun 13, 2006  at  04:48 PM
While we're debating theology...

I realize there's nothing in the Bible that specifically says "Thou shalt not make phony million-dollar bills," but shouldn't passing conterfeit money still be considered a sin?

I mean, lying and cheating and deception in general have traditionally been frowned upon.

Or do these folks subscribe to an end-justifies-the-means philosophy?
Posted by Big Gary  on  Tue Jun 13, 2006  at  04:52 PM
Big Gary, they are not trying to use these as currency, so no, it's not lying and cheating. Try to put your bias aside, these guys are getting screwed by the government over something stupid, if this were not a religious group I suspect people would be a bit more supportive of a group with a harmless gag being criminalized.
Posted by Lonewatchman  on  Tue Jun 13, 2006  at  06:31 PM
Oh god.. I *HATE* these things.. with a loathing, burning passion.. They're not the first to use the 'fake money' tract, and likely will not be the last.

There I was, several years ago.. I was utterly broke, homeless and hungry. Things were pretty bleak.

Then, one afternoon, I see a neatly-folded $20 in the bushes outside a small restraunt. I could not beleive my luck! This meant enough food that I could stave off starvation for another week, and possibly treat myself to a bit of Real Food for a change..

Then my heart fell a bit.. Surely someone would miss having dropped a twenty. Even as desperate as I was, it wouldn't be right. I looked around a little, trying to see if anyone was nearby who might have dropped it.. but nobody else was near, so my heart lifted again.. I walked towards the local grocery store with a spring in my step, visions of a decent dinner floating in my head..

Halfway there, I noticed the bill was a bit odd.. too stiff and slick.. I unfolded it, and my heart fell.. The tract was designed so that, when folded into quarters, it exactly resembled a $20, but when unfolded, chided the bearer for their greed and promised a 'treasure greater than money' at the local church.

I collapsed on a bench and nearly cried that someone would come up with something so *cruel*.. that in my hour of greatest need, I'd had that which I needed most dangled before me, then cruelly yanked away..
Posted by Robin Bobcat  in  Californian Wierdo  on  Tue Jun 13, 2006  at  07:43 PM
I've had one of these handed to me before, and was pretty offended by religious nuts disguising their ramblings as money and handing it to strangers. I folded it into a paper airplane later though, so no harm done.
Posted by Zoe  on  Wed Jun 14, 2006  at  12:48 AM
Wow it's getting deep in here. This is why America is such a social/political boiler these days, because clearly anyone who disagrees with my group must be a crazy hatefilled lunatic, after all they don't agree with me so they can't be just normal people with a different opinion, they must be villianized.
Posted by Lonewatchman  on  Wed Jun 14, 2006  at  07:28 AM
How well I remember the part of the New Testament where Jesus says, "My followers shall rely on cheap deception to trick others into believing in me, for the end justifies the means."
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Wed Jun 14, 2006  at  05:53 PM
If you believe in the words of Jesus, how are they going to be enhanced by pretend money? If you don't believe in Jesus, are you going to be convinced more easily by pretend money?

Maybe someone belives that just picking one of these up is enough to start an unbeliever on the road to salvation, and that's why they think a dirty trick is ok -- means to an end. But I doubt this means to an end is effective.

As for the counterfeiting charge, I think a simple "stop doing this" from the government should be sufficient, since there's no actual bill being copied.
Posted by cvirtue  on  Thu Jun 15, 2006  at  07:14 PM
I'm still waiting for somebody to explain why Grover Cleveland (or whoever that is) is on the million-dollar-bill tract.
Posted by Big Gary  on  Sat Jun 17, 2006  at  02:22 PM
At least it's not Willaim Henry Harrison ("I died in 30 days!")
Posted by Laser Potato  on  Mon Jun 26, 2006  at  05:20 AM
The use of fake money is kinda goofy and stupid, but, since they didn't really try to pass it off as real money, it's probably harmless.

On the other hand, the government's fanatical insistence that nobody print anything remotely resembling US currency is quite disturbing. The reason, of course, is that our money is really just play money, backed with nothing and shamelessly manipulated by a federal reserve to serve the political needs of the moment. Naturally, they don't want the distinction between "real" money and "fake" money to be eroded, or else people might realize how worthless US currency really is.
Posted by Dano  on  Fri Jun 30, 2006  at  05:54 AM
If US currency is so worthless why don't you box all of yours up and ship it to me? I'll gladly take it off your hands. 😛
Posted by Charybdis  in  Hell  on  Fri Jun 30, 2006  at  08:52 AM
The Lord sometimes uses foolish things to get HIS WORD out to us foolish human beings. Many are attracted to money. A couple of you were affended because you picked up a tract like this and found it not to be money. And in fact it was more valuable than money. The tract is nothing, but it is the WORD of God on it that is worth more than anything. Most will be offended; that is why you self rightious people crucified Jesus to the cross. But some will take this tract, read the WORD on it and allow the HOLY SPIRIT to speak to their hearts, unlike many of you.
Posted by Guy  on  Fri Jun 30, 2006  at  01:53 PM
The WORD of God doesn't fill an empty stomach. I'll take fed and godless over Saved and starving every single time.
Posted by Charybdis  in  Hell  on  Fri Jun 30, 2006  at  03:26 PM
2 Corinthians 6:4-10, "But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings; By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned, By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things."
Posted by Guy  on  Fri Jun 30, 2006  at  07:38 PM
Thank you for proving my point, Guy. Any god that promotes or condones suffering isn't the god for me, and his followers who commit these malicious acts aren't any better.
Posted by Charybdis  in  Hell  on  Fri Jun 30, 2006  at  09:10 PM
1 Peter 5:10, "But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you."
Posted by Guy  on  Sat Jul 01, 2006  at  06:49 AM
These type of tracts are attention getters for people who may not even look at another gospel tract. Why are you getting angry over someone caring enough to try to get your attention so you can go to Heaven when you die? You should be happy that they care about you. The real sin would be to give you a real million dollars and then do nothing else so you would go to Hell when you die. You might not be physically hungry but your spirit would still be longing for something more. Most people don't even know that they are going to Hell when they die. That's why they need things to grab their attention. As for being so disapointed because you need the money to eat, there are Christian Missions that will give you three meals a day for free. If you are hungry, you can go to churches and missions and get food and clothes. These people aren't the only ones that give out money tracts. I got one by an organization called Make it Clear Ministries out of Florida and thought it was great.
Posted by Earl  on  Sun Jul 09, 2006  at  10:43 AM
Why do we get upset? Because they're preying on the needy to make themselves feel better. There is never enough food available for the people that need it.

"He may have starved to death, but at least I helped save his soul."

It makes me sick.
Posted by Charybdis  in  Hell  on  Mon Jul 10, 2006  at  09:27 AM
I did a search for the money tracts Earl wrote about that he got from Make It Clear Ministries. They look great! I found them at http://www.makeitclearnow.org They even sell them cheap on the news page on their site. Just thought I'd share in case anyone else is as curious as I am. I love little novelties like this.
Posted by Di  on  Tue Jul 11, 2006  at  07:51 AM
I can see that Charybdis in Hell just doesn't get the point of tracts. They don't pass them out to feel good. They pass them out because they care. They don't prey on the needy but they use human nature to get their attention. People love money. When they see some, it gets their attention. Five hundred years from now you won't remember who gave you a meal but you will remember the person that told you how to go to Heaven. How you remember it will depend on what you do with the information. You will either be thanking God for that person in Heaven or you will be kicking yourself for eternity for rejecting God and His way to Heaven. God can make sure you get the informatin, but it is up to you as to how you react to it. I have been in many cities with missions that give away food to the hungry and I have never heard of any of them turning someone away because there wasn't enough food to go around.
Posted by Earl  on  Wed Jul 12, 2006  at  08:30 AM
Not getting into a theological argument here, there's another forum for that.

How about this. You're obviously a religious person who feels that you're going to Heaven when you die. Now, let's say you're destitute and starving to death, as is your family (who we'll also presume to have been 'saved'). You're out begging for money to feed your starving family before they die. Somebody hands you a religious tract instead of food or money.

How exactly is this beneficial to you? You're already saved. Aren't they preaching to the choir, so to speak? Are you going to feel better about your situation because somebody thinks re-teaching you the word of God is more important than helping you with your physical needs?

In other words, it's rather presumptious on their part to assume that you even need spiritual saving. Who are they to judge your soul? And they are doing it, don't even try to argue against that. They assume that you need spiritual guidance far more than you need physical help. They never talked to you, they never asked you any questions, they just assumed "Oh, there's a begger, he must be going to Hell. I'll save his soul for him."

Isn't it wrong to think this way?

I know, I know, you don't think that's what they're thinking at all. But, of course it is. Otherwise they'd ask you first. If they were a decent person who truly cared about your soul they'd get to know you and determine your need for salvation. But that's too personal. It's far easier to throw tracts out at people and hope some of them take. They, and by 'they' I mean you, can feel better about yourselves without having to actually do any work at all. After all, who wants to befriend a beggar? I'm too busy doing God's work.
Posted by Charybdis  in  Hell  on  Wed Jul 12, 2006  at  09:42 AM
Charybdis, My friend, your misunderstanding of God's ways has put bitterness in your heart. People in the Name of Jesus has given more charity than any organization in the world. I being a follower of Christ give to the poor until it hurts me financially. Why, because out of love. How much do you give? These tracts are just a way that God uses to reach many that we would not get a chance to talk to. I have invited many into my home, even the homeless and have helped those in need. And I am nothing compared to the millions who do this in the name of Jesus. But your bitterness has blinded your eyes because of this. Charybdis, you have not tasted even an ounce of what HELL really is. God so loves you so much, that Jesus suffered and died for your sins so that you will not. All you must do is accept HIM as your LORD and repent (turn away) from your sins. Then you will receive salvation from the pits of HELL. That is what these tracts are about.
Posted by Guy  on  Wed Jul 12, 2006  at  05:56 PM
You still haven't explained how preaching to a starving man helps him. His relationship with God shouldn't come into it.
Posted by Charybdis  in  Hell  on  Thu Jul 13, 2006  at  08:56 AM
Philippians 4:19, "But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus."
Psalms 37:25-26, "I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread. He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed."

God takes care of His own. This is what the message of salvation is all about.

2 Corinthians 8:9, "For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich."

The starving mans position has everything to do with God's salvation plan. But first he must come into relationship with the Lord.

These tracts that are handed out has the message OF SALVATION so that the starving man can be filled.

John 6:33-36, "For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not."
Posted by Guy  on  Thu Jul 13, 2006  at  05:50 PM
So, you're telling me that people who believe in God have, and in fact feel, no need for food or water? Sorry, I know this to be a falsehood.

It basically comes down a difference of opinion.

You feel it's more important to save a person's soul.

I feel it's more important to save a person's life.
Posted by Charybdis  in  Hell  on  Fri Jul 14, 2006  at  09:10 AM
What good would it do if you gained the whole world and lost your soul. What would you give in exchange for your soul. When you compare a hundred years or so on earth to eternity, you will see that you are not doing anyone any favors by feeding their bodies and then ignoring their spiritual needs. You think about temporary things. You need to see the big picture. Eternity lasts much longer than a few years here. They may thank you for a meal until they are hungry again but if they go to Heaven because you cared enough to tell them about Christ, they will thank you forever. Much better!!! In Luke chapter 16, the rich man had it all, but he wouldn't share anything with Lazarus because he only thought about the here and now. The rich man cared nothing about eternity. The rich man paid the price. The rich man went to Hell and will be miserable for all time. Lazarus was a Christian and is happy now. Both men have been dead now for thousands of years. At this point, neither one of them care about what happened to them way back when. It is all irrelevant to them now. Earl mentioned missions where you can go to get food. My husband and I often donate food and supplies to our local mission to feed the hungry. I give the people directions to the mission so they can a meal every day. Do you donate to a local church or mission to help feed the hungry? Physical needs are only part of the problem. The bigger need is a spiritual one. You feed yourself physically. Are you starving spiritually? If a person gets right spiritually, the physical needs will be taken care of.
Posted by Julia  on  Fri Jul 14, 2006  at  01:31 PM
Charybdis in Hell, apparently my response is too long for one response so I will break this response into 2 so you can read it all. ou give so much to talk about. As I stated earlier, there are too many churches and missions out there to have to starve to death. I would go to the missions and churches and get fed three times a day for free. There are several places in my small town where you can go to get three meals a day.
Don't forget that the person that who has a mouth to beg also has a mouth to tell the person with the tracts that he is also a Christian. Apparently the person in your example just takes the tract without saying another word. Most Christians will try to get the fellow Christian to go visit a church or mission to get some food. If the person begging is a Christian, why isn't he going to ask his church for help? Probably because he doesn't go to church anywhere. I used to attend a church that had about fifteen people that showed up every Sunday morning for church every week. Even with fifteen people in the church, they still helped people in the area as much as they could. They even contacted other churches in the area to help the people out. The rest of this responce will be on the next comment.
Posted by Earl  on  Fri Jul 14, 2006  at  02:41 PM
Here is the rest of my comments to you.
You said that it is presumptuous on their part to assume that I need spiritual saving. We need to assume that people are not going to Heaven unless they tell us differently. As I mentioned earlier, this is what they need to use their mouth for. After all, the body may last 100 years but the soul will be around for the rest of eternity. Yes, the soul is much more important than the body, however James 2:15-17 tells us not to neglect the persons physical needs when they come to you because you need to put your faith to work. You can say you care but you need to show it. I have bought people food and put gas in their cars but I wont give them money because I have seen them go into the store and buy beer and cigarettes with the money that I have given to them. One man came to me in a parking lot and told me that he needed money for a part to his car. I wouldn't give him money but offered to buy it for him at the parts store. When he saw I wouldn't give him any money he said never mind and approached another couple in the parking lot. Another man approached me because he needed laundry detergent. I told him I would buy him some if he would stay there because he wouldn't ride to the store with us. I was back from the store in about three minutes and he was no where to be found. I have many examples like that I could tell you about. I have been bad off in my time also so I can speak from experience, not from a "lets make up an example" like you seem to be doing. At one time in my life I had to sleep in a cardboard box in the winter time to keep warm. Where were the Christians at that time? I didn't tell them how bad off I was. I am sure they would have helped me if I asked them to. They helped me out with meals because that's what I told them I needed.
Finally on your last point, sometimes I can talk to someone, and sometimes I can't. I can always give them a tract to read when they get a chance. There are many people out there who will give them money to ease their own conscious because they are not living the way they should but there is a shortage of people who care enough to try to help them go to Heaven. We need to take care of the physical and the spiritual. This something that I try to do. You may only try to take care of them physically. You haven't ever said if you actually give these people money or if you just hate people that pass out tracts. Even if you do throw a dollar or two their way, it is only putting a band-aid on a major open wound that needs surgery. I can say that people who pass out tracts are doing Gods work. You however are to busy to even try to do Gods work. In the end, only what we do for God will make any difference. Try giving God a chance in your life. If you truly give God a chance, you will never regret it. If you don't want God in your life, you will regret it sooner or later.
Posted by Earl  on  Fri Jul 14, 2006  at  02:43 PM
Hey Charybdis in Hell, Why don't you team up with Earl. You keep them alive until he can save their souls. Sounds like a win, win situation to me.
Posted by Julia  on  Sat Jul 15, 2006  at  07:52 PM
I've stated my position, and I stand by my assertion that preying upon a person's physical needs to proselytize to them is amoral. It has nothing whatsoever to do with finding one's place in Heaven. It has everything to do with pulling a bait and switch tactic on the desperately needy. It is impossible to condone this type of behavior.

The argument isn't whether saving a person's soul is better than saving their body. It's about lying to people. It's about taking advantage of the needy.
Posted by Charybdis  in  Hell  on  Mon Jul 17, 2006  at  09:19 AM
How about writing up a tract on the computer and printing it out, then folding it up in some real money and giving it to a needy person or throwing it on the street? That would get their attention, and they'd be grateful for the money, so they might actually read what's on the tract instead of throwing it away in anger.
Posted by Sakano  in  Ohio  on  Fri Jul 21, 2006  at  11:17 AM
Hi Sakano,
If you read all of the comments so far, you know why I don't put a tract in real money. When I have given money to people I have seen them go into a store and buy beer or cigarettes with it. They can buy that stuff with their own money that they have worked for just like you and me. When they ask for money for food and then buy beer or cigarettes with it, they are lying and have no bussiness doing it. As I stated earlier I will buy them food or put gas in their tanks but I will not give them money. Most people will just tell the guy to get lost. At least Christians will take the time to try to see that they have a better future. How often do you buy food or gas or help them out with their rent? I do all of that plus give out tracts. I also give them directions to the local mission that gives away three free meals a day. I buy food and give it to the mission to help feed the people. How about you guys? I think the money tracts are a cool idea and just ordered some from make it clear. I can't wait to try them out and see what kind of response people will have to them. I plan to hang around to see if people like them or not.
Posted by Earl  on  Fri Jul 21, 2006  at  08:27 PM
"They can buy that stuff with their own money that they have worked for just like you and me."

It's really a little sickening that you think that just because someone is poor they're lazy and won't get a job. Have you ever thought that someone CAN'T get a job? That's the situation with my aunt right now...she barely has any money, and she can't find a job because she's almost at the retirement age. She's tried almost everything, including unemployement agencies, McDonalds, the ads in the newspapers, but no one's willing to hire her. I myself don't have a lot of money either, and I have a job! I only make $6 an hour, though.

I would be pretty pissed if someone handed me fake money with a tract on it or if I found it in the road. I know I would probably rip it apart in frustration...and I'm a Christian! I go to church every week and pray, and all that good stuff. Tracts are stupid and ineffective, at least that's my opinion. Don't try to bait and switch someone into going to church, because chances are it's not going to work.

It is good that you help some people and buy food for them, though. I think you should concentrate on that. I bet you could convert more people that way than handing out silly fake money.
Posted by Sakano  in  Ohio  on  Sat Jul 22, 2006  at  06:37 AM
Dear Sakano

You state that you are a Christian, but your language seems to state otherwise. We should bear fruit. If a person has the Spirit of Christ, I do not believe they would rip up a Gospel tract with the Word Of God on it. You may be religious, but please look in the mirror of your own soul to see if you are right in God's eyes.

Earl is stating that people take advantage of giving them out cash. For example.

a couple of years ago a couple came to our church asking for help. They stated they need money to by food and groceries. Well the Pastor thought it be wise instead of giving them money to buy them the food and groceries instead.

The woman got very upset and demanded she wanted the money instead. Tha pastor told them that we did not have to give them anything at all, but if they wanted the groceries, that the good people of the Church would give out of their own pockets to buy them groceries. The lady fianally agreed.

The couple told us that they were camping in a park for us to drop off the groceries there that afternoon. We purchased about $150.00 of groceries for this couple. When we got to the camp site, the couple was not around, but their viehicle and their tent were there with many beer cans around, and when we went into their tent to place the groceries, there was a bag of illigal drugs (pot) in a bag sitting right there for everyone to see.

It seems if this couple was so hard up for food and groceries, that they would not be spending it on beer and pot. But the hard working people of the Church gave out of their own to give to this ungateful people.

You keep bringing up the fact of giving money to the poor. Why do you think that God or the followers of Christ owe the world to give to them. AGAIN, can you honestly say you give to the poor? For some reason I do not believe you give at all. I can honestly tell you that I give thousands of dollars a year. I have given 2 automobiles to the needed already, I have given housing to the homeless to some in the past. And have done many good deeds, ONLY BECAUSE I FOLLOW CHRIST. IT is better to give than receive.

If you were a TRUE Christian, and had the Spirit of Christ, you would know that these tracts were more important than anything else upon the face of this earth. But you are blind to the ways of God and you do not see the truth.

Please humble yourself and admit to God that you are far from Him and need His forgiveness. You may say that we are not to judge one another. I am not judging you. I am warning you of the judgemant to come. Rev. 20:11-15. Please read this.

This may be hard for you, and say that I must have hatred. If I hated you, I would not say anyhting at all. I tell you this because I love you and want to warn you of the Judgement to come. This is what those tracts are about. PLEASE TURN FROM YOUR SINS AND CALL UPON JESUS FOR FORGIVENENSS AND AS YOUR LORD.
Posted by Guy  on  Sat Jul 22, 2006  at  07:31 AM
Oh, by the way Sakano, I only make less that $350 a week, but God gives seed to the sower.

Also I do understand what it means to be in great nned. I have been homeless before living in an old 1974 beat up pick up truck at one time during the middle of summer in Louisiana.

The true Christians gave me home and food. But I know it came from God Himself and would have never turned down a money tract if given one. I would have know that this was God's way of calling me to have a closer relationship with Him.
Posted by Guy  on  Sat Jul 22, 2006  at  07:43 AM
Well, good for you Guy. If I had money I might give to charity, but I have to worry about feeding myself first. You can't expect everyone with no money to give to the poor. Also, I don't think you should be bragging about it. Doesn't that kind of negate the whole "I'm doing it for the Lord!" argument? Actually come to think of it... your whole argument reminds me of that song, Amish Paradise where the person singing brags "I'm at least a million times more humble than thou art!" You know, it's people like you that give the rest of us Christians a bad name. People see us all as crazy because of a couple weirdos in the bunch.

Also, Guy and Earl, and whoever else is arguing...it's pretty obvious that you're all the same person. I thought lying was a sin, so how about you stop lying about your identity? Though maybe you're just a troll who's trying to stir up trouble. I kind of hope so, because if you're a real person it's a little sad that you think that fake pieces of money are the most important thing on earth. Either way, whether you're a troll or just a sad little man, I'm not wasting any more time on this silly argument.
Posted by Sakano  in  Ohio  on  Sat Jul 22, 2006  at  07:52 AM
One more thing Sakano, it was someone giving me tract years ago, in 1993 that that played a big part in bringing me into relationship with Christ. So I can honestly tell you that tracts do work. It only does not work like self rightous people like you who are too pridful thinking like you quoted "go to church every week and pray, and all that good stuff." can save you. Going to church and paraying and all that good stuff cannot save you from the judment of God. Only faith in Jesus. Romans 10:17, "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

These tracts have the WORD OF GOD ON THEM.
Posted by Guy  on  Sat Jul 22, 2006  at  07:52 AM
Well, Sakano, I never met Earl, and do not know who he is. But I can tell you this. We are kinda the same person. Because we have the Same Spirit of Christ. And my point of teloing you what I give is not to be prideful. It is to give you explaination that the people of Christ do give . That is your argument that Christians rather give tracts than help those in need. You made your point that you do not give. I sacrifice to give. I have gone without food so others can have food. That is the LOVE OF CHRIST. He sacrificed so we can have.
Posted by Guy  on  Sat Jul 22, 2006  at  08:00 AM
Hey Sakano,
I never said anything about someone that is poor, must be lazy. You came up with that one all on your own. The Bible tells us that we are responsible to take care of our own families. Otherwise we have denied the faith, and are worse than an infidel (1 Timothy 5:8). I only bring this up because you brought it up to start with and claim to be a Christian. You and your family members should be helping out your Aunt. If you all pitch in a little, your Aunt will have some money to get by. You just do what you can and pray about what you can't do. Leave the rest up to God. You can always use part of your tithe to help your Aunt. This way you can feel good about helping out your Aunt and it will not cost you any more than you are giving to God. If you give an offering, give it to your Aunt. Only a person who doesn't give to God will not understand how God will bless you for it. I hope that you are a person that gives to God because He has given you everything that you have and if you show Him that you are faithful with what He has given to you, He will give you more. It may not be more money that He gives you. He can bless you in other ways like better health, your car not breaking down, or finding sales at the store when you must buy something. As a Christian you should be worried about the big picture. Take care of their physical needs but don't stop there. Make sure they are set for eternity. How will you answer a friend or family member in the after life when he says to you, you fed me but you didn't share with me how to go to Heaven. When he tells you that he will spend eternity in Hell and you knew how to keep him out of there. Tell them about Jesus and how to go to Heaven. Then let them make up their own mind - what they want to do with the knowledge that you have shared with them.
Posted by Earl  on  Sat Jul 22, 2006  at  03:05 PM
No matter how you sugarcoat it, it's still emotional blackmail and preying on the needy.

A good person would help them get back on their feet first, instead of taking advantage of them to proselytize.
Posted by Charybdis  in  Hell  on  Mon Jul 24, 2006  at  09:06 AM
A person with good intentions may think that getting them back on their feet would be more important, but when you realize that any one of us may not even be alive in five minutes from now you will see that it is more important to get right with God than to let them have a meal. Anything can happen to anyone at any time. The people on 911 were working in their offices one minute and seconds later they were dead from a plane crashing in on them and they never even knew what hit them. How about the people eating at a McDonalds restraunt a few years ago when a car crashed in the store where they were sitting and some of them died. There was a famous basketball player "Pistle Pete" that was playing basketball with some friends. He just told a friend that he felt better than he had ever felt in his life and then he dropped over dead from a heart defect that he was born with ( and never knew about). The person youn are trying to help get back on their feet may not live to see tomorrow. That is why it is so important to make sure that they are right with God. You want to make sure they have a meal today. I want to make sure they will have meals for all of eternity. I don't see this as taking advantage of them but as helping them in the best way possible.
Posted by Earl  on  Tue Jul 25, 2006  at  05:07 PM
I love the "It's for their own good" bullshit when it's so obvious it's not. It's conceit, pure and simple.
Posted by Charybdis  in  Hell  on  Wed Jul 26, 2006  at  08:48 AM
It's for their own good is something that each parent uses with their child if they care at all for the child. We don't let our children play in the street, put their fingers in electric sockets, pet strange animals that wander into our yard, or talk to strangers. Why? Because it is for their own good. I have teenagers that don't always understand why I won't let them do things. They have found out the hard way that I knew what I was talking about. I know people that are still paying the price for things they did 10 or 20 years ago. Yes, for their own good is a good thing. If you were walking by a house late at night and saw it was on fire but didn't try to warn the people in the house, people in town would think you were a monster for letting the people in the house die when you could have helped them. You may say, hey, I fed them lunch, that's all I need to do but you would be wrong and they would end up paying the price for what you didn't do. This is known as a sin of ommision (Not doing something that you should do). Trying to help someone has nothing to do with conceit. You do it because it is the right thing to do. Helping someone to go to Heaven has nothing to do with conceit. You do it because you don't want that person to spend eternity in Hell. Hell is far worse than a burning building. I have no doubt that you would want to help the people in the burning building, however you see no reason to help them out of going to Hell. This is where we differ. I try to help people with eternity. You think it's a waste of time and energy. I hope and pray that you will be right with God when your time comes. Some day I will find out. I hope to see you in Heaven. You can offer a lot to Gods work if you will let Him help you. If you have any interest now or in the future, you can check out a simple test to see where you stand in Gods eyes as far as eternity. It's at http://www.makeitclearnow.org/gospel.html. They have a lot of other things on their site but I think it is pretty cool how they did this.
Posted by Earl  on  Wed Jul 26, 2006  at  04:59 PM
That's so condescending, it's not even funny. We're talking about adults. They're not children and they don't need to be treated like children. It's very pretenious that you feel you need to protect them and decide what's good for them.

Your analogy also falls short. I think this would be a more apt analogy. Let's say you're walking by, and you see a building burning with someone trapped inside. They're screaming for help, but instead of calling for help or actually trying to save them yourselves, you just scream "I hope you're right with God! Pray to Jesus so at least you'll go to Heaven!" and walking away.
Posted by Sakano  in  Ohio  on  Wed Jul 26, 2006  at  05:11 PM
Sakano, Go back and read everything that I have said on this site and you will realize that I would try to get them out of the house first, then talk to them about eternity. So you think that adults know what is good for them. Look at the world today, read the paper, watch the news. Adults often are no better at knowing what is good for them than children. This is why we have so much sin in the world. This is why the divorce rate is so high. People don't go into a marriage knowing what they are doing. They go into a marriage acting on their feelings instead of seeing what is real. Then when the feeling ends, they get out. And after they get out of the marriage, they say it is all the other persons fault. Then they get into another relationship and make the same mistakes all over again because they didn't learn from their previous mistakes. Learn from your mistakes so you don't repeat them later. You have already told us about your Aunt who needs help and you don't help her. You could help her if you wanted to. It's just not important to you. If it was, you would help her. My parents need help. I pay one of their monthly bills and send them money each month. I could say that I need the money to feed my children but that wouldn't help my parents out any. I just go without a few things that I would like to have but don't need. My parents are more important to me than the money. This is also why I give money to the local mission that feeds the poor and why I will buy a hungry person a meal or put gas in someones tank. But I also try to make sure that they will go to Heaven when they die. Something you care nothing about. I take care of the physically and spiritually. Ask yourself what kind of help are you giving them. I will tell you the same thing I told Charybdis in Hell. I hope that you are right with God when your time comes. If you can overcome the things that life has thrown at you, you will be able to live a life that will please God. Strive for that. You say that you are a Christian. Pray about it and ask God if you are living your life the way that He wants you to. You don't answer to me but one day you will answer to Him.
Posted by Earl  on  Wed Jul 26, 2006  at  05:47 PM
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