A Matrix-style poster depicting a Catholic priest as Neo isn't a spoof. The Catholic Church really is distributing these things. It's part of their
new recruitment campaign:
The poster's creator, the Rev. Jonathan Meyer, 28, associate director of youth ministries for the Archdiocese of Indianapolis, says pop culture is the key to attracting young men to an occupation that has gotten bad press.
"If we can get high-school youth to hang a picture of a priest in their room, that's huge in helping young men to answer the call to the priesthood," the cleric said. "Anyone who is a 'Matrix' guru looks at the picture and automatically gets it."
Crucifix in hand, Father Meyer posed for the poster, rated R for "restricted to those radically in love with Jesus Christ." Running time is "all eternity," and its title reads, "The Catholic priesthood: The answer is out there ... and it's calling you."
I'm wondering how far the Neo as Catholic priest analogy can be extended. In the second Matrix movie, Neo has sex with Trinity. So how are we supposed to interpret that? In one sense it seems appropriate (priests are dedicating themselves to God, or the Holy Trinity), but in another way it doesn't seem to be the message the Church intended. (via
Notes From the Lounge)
A Matrix-style poster depicting a Catholic priest as Neo isn't a spoof. The Catholic Church really is distributing these things. It's part of their new recruitment campaign:
Comments
If you would have used my logic and applied it to the cat and human thing you would have ended up with this result. The action of having a face, feet, and a name is shared by both cats and humans. It would be nice if someone else had taken logic courses so I could just write it out in symbolic logic.
If they're having sex with a condemn or contraception I think it is wrong. If they have natural sex and don't have a kid that's okay. But, they cannot intentional put some unnatural barrier between the two egg and sperm.
One person said a good reason to not be christian was due to the fact that sex without the possibilty of children is wrong.
How did your homosexual neighbor have kids? Just curious not gay-bashing or anything as I was accused of earlier.
Our neighbor was married to a woman at one time but I don't know the details of their divorce. He has custody and his former wife visits regularly and they appear to be good friends. I think that she may be a recovering alcoholic? They both clearly care for and participate in having a good relationship with their kids. The kids look like both parents so I can only assume that they engaged in sex when they were married and the births followed. The thing about a goat is too much for me to handle. We really care about our neighbor and his kids and he has invited us to attend his church. He is Episcopalian. I attended a Catholic HS but I am not Catholic. Sometimes I attend the Greek Orthodox Church.
The reason I focused on Catholic priests is because I thought that this conversation was about a poster and the Catholic Church. Arni
"Less than 2% of clergy have been accused of sexual abuse. The same numbers could be found in any other job."
Where did you get that "statistic" from, or did you just make it up? It may or may not be true, but I would like to know where it came from.
But nobody cares if a plumber, painter, banker, general manager does it because they are not tied to Catholics."
Oh? Again, where are you getting this from? I see stories all the time on my local Fox TV affiliate's news about child molestation (they're a wee bit obsessed with that kind of thing). Yes, they've talked about child molesting priests, but they've also talked about non-priests. Are you just making up your "facts?"
"People who are not Catholics generally have a distaste for Catholics and I don't know why that is. Someone who lives by the Catholic faith should be nothing but a pleasant person to enconuter and yet society hates us. Why is that?"
For the third time, where are you getting this "fact" from? What makes you think that society in general hates Catholics (other than the Vatican-protected child molesting priests, that is)? What evidence do you have for your contention(s)? Unfortunately for you, this debate is not "faith-based." Put up or shut up, please.
"Someone asked what "unitive" meant so I told them. And if you don't want to be talked down to don't come into a conversation asking stupid questions."
I was that person, as you'd know if you were paying attention. I'll repeat what I said: For all I knew, the word "unitive" has some special meaning in your belief system. That, as I have already explained to you, was what I was asking about.
"If you would have used my logic and applied it to the cat and human thing you would have ended up with this result. The action of having a face, feet, and a name is shared by both cats and humans. It would be nice if someone else had taken logic courses so I could just write it out in symbolic logic."
It would be even nicer if you had paid attention during those classes. Yes, you made an comparison between homosexuals and animals. You then drew a ridiculous CONCLUSION based on that comparison. I was showing you how silly that was by "demonstrating" that cats and humans have similar features and are therefore equal. That is exactly what you did. You are unable to see that, I believe, because of your religious tenets. You have drawn a conclusion that you will not challenge, no matter what.
"If they're having sex with a condemn or contraception I think it is wrong. If they have natural sex and don't have a kid that's okay. But, they cannot intentional put some unnatural barrier between the two egg and sperm."
First off, I see two mistakes in spelling in that single paragraph. You may wish to be a little less critical of others (especially when they ask what YOU mean by a word) when you have such trouble with the language.
Secondly, you are, of course, entirely within your rights to have whatever bizarre beliefs you want to; you should, I believe, be a little less hasty to criticize others who don't share your fringe beliefs. I'm willing to bet that the majority of Americans do NOT believe that it is "wrong" for a married man to wear a condom when having intercourse with his wife.
"One person said a good reason to not be christian was due to the fact that sex without the possibilty of children is wrong."
A good reason to be a Christian is that it keeps you from having to think for yourself.
http://www.catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm
http://www.survivorsfirst.org/gallery/index.html
http://www.bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/
BAD PRIEST, NO DONUT!
Humpty Dumpty Priests!
http://www2.xlibris.com/bookstore/bookdisplay.asp?bookid=1201
BAD NUN, NO DONUT!
HUMPTY DUMPTY NUNS...PLEASE SPLAIN!
http://www.enquirer.com/priests/
GET A GOOD LOOK AT A FEW THE ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIEST OFFENDERS. HOW CAN ANYBODY TRULY ESPLAIN THIS ROMAN CATHOLIC SCANDAL?
http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/extras/removed_list.htm
THEY CAN RUN BUT THEY CANNOT HIDE!
HUMPTY DUMPTY BOYS! BUSTED! HOORAY!
Why are you so mean? It look like you want to be appreciate but then you call people name. You may be smart but when you try to prove that everybody molest the children and not just Catholic, you seem like you try to conquer anybody that disagree with you and make it look like they are stupid. Whats about the prayer for them? I don
Thank you for your criticism. But it gets very difficult when people everywhere bash me for being Catholic because the media blows the scandals out of proportion. It is not just priests in fact Catholic priests are doing the best at it out of anyone. But that storyline doesn't sell. So people are making money out of shaming my Church. And I don't think that is fair at all. Why can't people be nice to us? And in China the Catholic Church is being persecuted. The government kills Catholics all the time. But that doesn't make the news. The world is full of injustice I would just like it to balance to justice and close the mass media because they turn everyone on everyone.
The Chinese government hate everybody, not just Catholic. The soldiers kill many innocent people such as student, political dissident, ntellectual and many mental ill people. Many Tibetan Buddhist have been kill. Government want to give appearance of acepting diversity in the population but that is propaganda for outsider world. Believe it, the government look down upon everybody and not trusting any citizen.
There is more freedom for faith in Shanghai and Hong Kong. Hong Kong is international city, and the government must be very careful to avoid protest. Government not wish to scare away tourist money because many tourist are Christian and go to church in Hong Kong when they visit for holiday. Still, even the tourist is watch by police and other people. You don
http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2005/08/again-father-again.html
http://www.dallasnews.com/cgi-bin/bi/dallas/2002/priests.cgi
Protect Children, Not Pedophiles!
I was shocked to read about JEWISH pedophiles? It's not just Catholic priests. What next? BUDDHISTS, HINDUS, WHAT ELSE? ARE ANY CHILDREN SAFE?
Treatment is not supposed to help but I don't know, maybe it does? What the hell is the treatment? What's the fuss about a poster when children are still being molested? A recruitment poster is one thing, but fucking over children is an entirely different matter. I must agree that it is curious that there are not too many stories about Rabbi's & Imams screwing over children, at least not as many stories as there are about Priests? How come?
".2% -.7% of priests are pedarasts... practically nothing"
Where are you getting this alleged statistic from?
Even if there's any accuracy to it, it's probably MORE accurate to say that .2-.7% of priests are pederasts who GOT CAUGHT. There's no actual way to determine how many haven't been caught.
Besides, if YOUR child was molested by a priest, would that number give you any comfort?
I suspect that much of the anger at the Catholic Church is because they systematically tried to cover up the crimes committed by priests. Are you saying that you can't understand why people would be outraged by that?
Jesus is dead anyway so what's the fuss? Nooky is alive and the clergy know where to find it. What's new?
Perhaps the inner core of the catholic church is more accepting of the Gospels of Thomas than they have let on.
Adam is Ukixxoc - cock!
What is this business about Ka-Os, when Adam says that 000002%-00007% is a mere nothing? I think that Adam is clergy that wants to maintain the corrupt Catholic structure and share power with the peons that are the church. That's a nooky bird for you. Do you suspect that he may be a pedi
and wants to keep his activities secret? YUP...since we haven't heard from him, maybe he's helping out in New Orleans, rescuing children...
A Generation of sin is what you all are...
Would it be something ridicoulizing the church, then you'd be all happy, or would it have been some poster of some nude girl posing as what, Trinity, and then you wudnt have given a shhhh...
You hate it because God is present on it. and in fact, that poster is really awesome.
And it is not meant to put the priests as matrix people, are you so dumb to believe so? It is only to attract people, to make it look cool, and the purpose was achieved. It was not meant to be some sort of analogy of Matrix.. where is the common sense???
All they teach is that suffering is a blessing. yeah right, suffering never did any good what so ever.
Exodus 34:19 "All that openeth the matrix is mine".
Numbers 18:15 "Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the LORD, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine".
Secondly, what you're saying in defense of the Catholic Church is factually incorrect.
The Church actively covered up for many of the molester priests, moving them to other dioceses to hide them from the law. One, the alleged worst of the bunch, was moved to Rome where he is currently in the Pope's Inner Circle.
In other circumstances, if this didn't involved a powerful, influential Church, this would be prosecuted as obstruction of justice. In any case, it's just plain disgusting and morally wrong. It is NOT defensible, especially for a Church which claims to speak directly for God.
For the record, I made NOTHING up. Not only has there been more than a "few" pedophile priests, the Catholic Church hierarchy HAS gone out of its way to cover that fact up, including, as I said, moving perhaps the most egregious offender to Rome in an apparant attempt to avoid having him go on trial. The fact that the Church tried to move priests to avoid prosecution has been cited in several of the lawsuits against it.
As I said, under any other circumstance involving a less politically powerful organization than the Catholic Church, that would constitute "obstruction of justice."
Even if, as you say, there are examples of clergy from other denominations who have engaged in similar criminal activity, so what? Since when do two wrongs make a right? That would only mean that those people should also be indicted, tried and convicted along with the priests.
I am sincerely baffled as to why you would want to make excuses for the molestation of children. I fail to see anything "Christian" in that dismissive attitude.
Please stop with the personal insults, by the way. They contribute nothing to the discussion.
"Regarding what I meant about other denominations having sexually immoral people I was just trying to state The Catholic Church is not the only one with these people in it."
Again, so what? Two wrongs STILL don't make a right.
OK, I'll repeat what I said before since you don't seem to have gotten it. The fact that the Catholic Church moved priests around to avoid prosecution was central to several of the child molestations suits against it. It was shown in court that some of the accused priests were moved around by the Church AFTER the allegations against them were first made.
To date, the Catholic Church in America has paid out the better part of a BILLION DOLLARS to victims. With so much at stake, you have to ask yourself why the Church consistently settles out of court. Could it possibly be that the Holy Roman Catholic Church KNOWS it's guilty and doesn't want to have to face a jury? I mean, since the Catholic Church is infallible and all, wouldn't the TRUTH work for them if they were innocent?
"Finally and most importantly I am not trying to protect molestors and sexual abusers. No. I am simply trying to state while this world has a couple bad seeds don't assume the entire field of crops is ruined because of it. I do Not approve of molestors I am just asking for evidence on your arguments. And you Know what I am also just asking you not to get mad at the Church for what weak humans have done. Saying oh you know what? A couple bad priest's molested kids. That must mean the whole church is a corrupt one does not make any sense. No I am just trying to defend my Church, the one true church by stating regardless of whwether or not molestors are in the Church is pointless."
There are apparantly more than a few pedophile
priests in the Catholic Church. An even bigger
problem, however, is the fact that the Church's
"management" has covered up for them. The fact
that you happen to not be aware of that does NOT
mean that it isn't true.
By the way, your opinion that the Catholic Church is the "one true church" is irrelevant. That does NOT change their legal culpability for protecting child molesters from the law.
Please don't lecture me about Catholic doctrine. I had 12 years of Catholic school and I'm sure I'm at least as familiar with it as you are.
Here are some links you may find interesting:
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8607
This one has SEVERAL interesting links in it:
http://www.harpers.org/subjects/CatholicFaith/SubjectOf/Event
This one gives details about Church officials
hiding pedophile priests:
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050731/NEWS08/507310305/-1/ARCHIVES30
Make sure to read the third paragraph of this one:
http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/print4/072403_report.htm
Need more? There's plenty more where that came from.
"I NEVER said 2 wrongs make a right I was just saying how come you people make it seem like only priests do this sort of thing?"
This thread is specifically about the Catholic Church. You're right, we haven't mentioned clergy from other denominations in this thread. We also haven't mentioned the National League standings. Know why? They aren't relevant to this current discussion, that's why.
When you insist on bringing up clergy from other denominations (you never provide any names, interestingly), it sounds as if you ARE trying to say that two wrongs make a right.
"When you mention the church paying money for crimes- they were just doing the inevitable sooner than if they had to pay them after the jury so they decided to speed up the process."
They would only have to pay the victims after a trial if the jury found them GUILTY. So, they paid before the trial which they knew would end in a finding of guilty anyway? OK, that makes sense, although it pretty much throws your point out the window.
"The Pope is not trying to cover this up and as I said earlier is aware those pedophiles WILL be punished by GOD."
Yes, the Pope, in the form of Catholic "management" in the Vatican, absolutely HAS covered up child molestation by priests. I gave you links to articles (as you asked me to) where prosecutors specifically SAID that the Church had covered up those activities for decades. Is Boston's D.A. lying? You know, when you challenged me to show you where that was stated, I KNEW you would deny any evidence I showed you. I did it anyway and you didn't disappoint me.
"Excuse me I said a few Mr. Picky media Guy. Man do you honestly think the Church did not punish them for their crimes?"
Yes, that's exactly what I believe. If you can show me evidence that the Church has punished any pedophile priest, I'd be very interested in seeing it. You realize, of course, that if the Church did that, it would be a tacit admission that the priests harmed children.
Besides, any "punishment" the Church meted out would not make the guilty priests immune from legal prosecution. They should be behind bars, period.
"Cardinal Bernard Law of Boston announced a policy Wednesday mandating that all clergy and volunteers in his archdiocese report allegations of abuse of minors to law enforcement authorities."
Wow, that's ALMOST as interesting as the paragraph which IMMEDIATELY PRECEDES THAT ONE:
"The Vatican published new rules Tuesday ordering church officials worldwide to swiftly inform the Holy See of such cases. But it also declared the cases subject to secrecy, prompting debate about whether the regulations will build or erode trust in the church."
OR the one IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE ONE YOU QUOTED:
"Law had opposed mandatory reporting, but reversed course as details became known in the case of a defrocked Massachusetts priest, John Geoghan, suspected of molesting dozens of people."
Or, how about THIS paragraph:
"Geoghan, 66, who goes on trial Monday, had been moved from parish to parish for years, even though the archdiocese had evidence he sexually abused children. Geoghan also faces 84 civil lawsuits. More than 130 people have claimed he fondled or raped them during the three decades he served in Boston-area parishes."
You gave me the link to the story; did you think I WOULDN'T look at it and find the information surrounding the few sentences you quoted out of context?
What the article REALLY says is that Cardinal Law only threatened to report child molesting priests AFTER some victims sued. Wow, THAT'S morality!
Hey, what's THIS I found a few paragraphs further down the page:
"The Rev. Thomas Doyle, one of three authors of a 1985 report to the bishops' conference warning more must be done to stop abuse, said some progress has been made. Bishops no longer shuffle accused priests from parish to parish, and some of the cases being heard now concern abuse that occurred years ago."
So, it took the Church from 1985 when Doyle submitted his report until 1992, when the article YOU pointed me to was written, to take ANY action about child molesting priests. Seven years. Wow.
Oh, did you notice the very interesting information in the last sentence in that last paragraph I quoted from the article YOU pointed me to? I'll show it to you again:
"Bishops NO LONGER shuffle accused priests from parish to parish..." [emphasis mine]
In other words, what I've been saying all along was correct; the Church hierarchy had a policy of moving accused child molesting priests around to avoid prosecution.
By the way, in this article, which YOU offered as "proof" of your point of view, there is NO mention of the Church punishing ANYONE.
Thank you, Joshua, for pointing me to an article which proves MY points so well.
Can I make a suggestion to you? I think perhaps you should read this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
Oh and given that "God and I? We're ready" thing, you might want to look into "delusions of grandeur" as well.
"A tool of GOD"?
Well, half of it is right.
Joshua, I'm going to say something now and I know it's going to upset you. I swear to you, however, that I am NOT trying to piss you off.
I honestly think you have some mental issues. I've tried to deal with you as a rational person, but I can see now that that isn't possible. You started off here by insulting anyone who doesn't agree with your Catholic faith and you keep changing your position whenever PROOF that you are factually incorrect comes along.
I'm truly sorry that you have these problems. I hope you can get some help for them, but you need to stop attacking other people gratuitiously. Your personal problems are not an excuse for lashing out and your faith in Catholicism, no matter how sincere, does not give you license to insult others, like when you called Protestants "retards." That isn't "Christlike," by any standard I can understand.
If it makes you happy to think that you've won this debate, well, go right ahead. I guess you need to believe that.
For the record, I wasn't accusing him of being retarded. I was actually thinking more along the lines of schizophrenia.
I spent three years in the late '90's working right outside the White House on Pennsylvania Ave. There's a surprising number of mentally ill people who come there from all over, often in an attempt to get the attention of the President so he will help them by, say, removing the chip they think has been implanted in their skull (yes, some people literally believe things like that).
During my time there, I knew TWO people who thought they were the reincarnation of Christ. Joshua was starting to remind me of them.
I just wanted to comment on the "Joshua Situation" why would you say Joshua was reminding you of peeple who thought they were Christ. He said he was a Catholic not a reicarnated saviour. he also said he was a tool of God.But nowhere did he say he waas the Chgrist. Alkso I agrre with you and your ideas on how the church has been keeping these things secret. Keep up the good work on this site. It's awesome!
"why would you say Joshua was reminding you of peeple who thought they were Christ. He said he was a Catholic not a reicarnated saviour. he also said he was a tool of God.But nowhere did he say he waas the Chgrist."
No, that's true that he never said he was Christ. He did, however, refer to himself as a "tool of God" and at one point said something about he and God saying "bring it on" or something similar. It just seemed like he was possibly exhibiting delusions of grandeur to me.
Anyway, welcome to the discussion, Andy.
Brring it on Catholics!