Here's a couple of vampire-themed websites sent in by visitors. First we have the
Federal Vampire and Zombie Agency. According to the blurb on the site, "From 1868 to 1975, the Federal Vampire & Zombie Agency (FVZA) was responsible for controlling the nation's vampire and zombie populations while overseeing scientific research into the undead. This site is a tribute to the men and women who served in the FVZA, especially the over 4000 Agents who lost their lives fighting to keep our country safe." And next we have
The Temple of the Vampire. If you want to live forever, then all you have to do is join the temple. The catch is that in order to join you have to buy their book,
The Vampire Bible. That's a good sales gimmick. I should try something like that for my book, such as if you want to achieve a state of absolute enlightenment, then you have to buy my book.
Comments
Lonnie is holding it down here for the "plastic-fangers", I'm sure that Nemo is proud to have such a strong representative here amongst us demons.
Keep up the good work Lonnie from Pitt, all though this fire needs no fuel, your an abundant source for those with gas guzzlers!
Hail Satan!
Hail the Sandstorm!
Part 1 of 2
"by Maxx on 29/8/2008, 2:11 pm
I have seen in other locations posts recommending contacting the Asetian web site to ask questions. I have not located that site so I will ask an open question here for others to see and maybe get an answer from someone in authority.
In reading the Asetian Bible I find that most of the information in the book I am familiar with in some form or fashion. Very little of it I find new to me. I spent 5 years as a Adept in the Temple of the Vampire. The teachings I learned were from their bibles and an individual there who ran it called Nemo. He used a name as George Smith when he spent 2-3 years with the Temple of Set before starting the TOV. He is also presently a magistrar in the Church of Satan as those two groups have the near same general concepts for the day side teachings. I also received much teaching in private from Nemo himself in private e mails.
In the beginning, it was all teaching very much worthy of a great person. At the last the teachings stopped and the group is now an angry group run by a group of 10 that censor any commentary on the board and has done a reverse turn as far as being a worthy group to learn in. I basically resigned in public on the board and created an uproar within the group. I found the change when Nemo backed off and turned most of the day to day affairs over to his son and the group of ten. It is now run by the son of Nemo as well as himself and the entire group is frightened to even post anything that would appear to be bad to TOV. In fact, it has taken on the appearance of the Church of Satan board that jumps on anyone that does not agree with them in any way. Censorship is foremost.
My question is how could Nemo have acquired this info? In a private e mail he told me in the beginning that he had to shop it for a sponsor. Then I guess he found one when he started the Temple. But there was a person named Lucas Martel that signed certificates. Lucas Martel---Luis Marques?. Too close for comfort with the close similar info."
"Could Nemo have been with the Aset Ka and been a type of renegade that put out the info (or a very, very close section of the info)? Nemo presents the TOV as being the only teachings of the true Vampire. You even have to buy all of the bibles thru his group even if you have acquired them from other sources as he says that will be the only way the transformation will occur, using approved books for study. Nemo is pushing all the members to sign up for cyronics to have the body frozen after physical death so science can bring back the anchor in the future. (Can you see the faces of the cryonics folks when they find out that 80% of the members call themselves Vampires?) All of the members are to pay extra attention to never let this secret get out to the public. LOL. The monthly dues amount of the large group worldwide is a good source of income now as the number has grown. I guess Nemo needs more time to watch his stock folio with his investments now.
I know there is some connection in all the info from the TOV teachings and the Aset Ka. Nemo has taken the teachings and tied them to the UFO sightings calling them the Gods from the past and also some of the transformed Vampires that are now advanced. Interesting teachings to say the least. The main teahings include the OBE techniques, feeding and how to feed, as well as all the metaphysical teachings in the Aset Ka Bible.
This is why I was so shocked to see very little new info when I read it. And this is why I was so taken back when I began to read the Asetian Bible and what Luis Marques had written.
I would appreciate anyone within the Aset Ka to kindly tell me what is going on here, either in public or in a private e mail if that is better.
Regards,
Maxx"
"by Maxx on 30/8/2008, 12:34 am
Victor, Thanks for your comments.
As far as the name, to my understanding, Lucas Martel was in charge of the TOV when it was given over to Nemo. I came in a little after the transision. I know there must be some kind of renegade issue here but just do not know how the connection lies. It would be certainly be a great relief to many out there to find out the true origins of the TOV.
Nemo is excellent at dispersing info at 95% actual and 5% changing the direction around and taking the entire issue in another direction. He gave instructions in the OOPs section (Order of Prometheus) showing us how to do that. It is a science. He is great at putting any idea out there to cover up something he does not want to talk about....even in a direct question. I tried for many years to get some answers about MKultra programming which he knew of but declinned to admit and then had his wife come in and try to show me it was nothing but delusion. LOL. A little too much to take when I have seen it with my own eyes and witnessed it in several cases. But that is another subject.
Hope to find some kind of answer out there. Thanks to you.
Regards,
Maxx"
"by Maxx on 31/8/2008, 3:56 pm
Victor,
You stated you were with TOV at one time. What level did you progress to within their structure? That would tell me a lot about what info you had access to. Of course, anything released by Nemo was always at the whim of Nemo and when he released it to individuals. Many times it was given to those he would choose in private e mail.
His wife Isabel, mostly dealt with issues of food and health while his son, Faelyn, was not that active within the structure at that time. He teaches at some Univ in Calif. It is designed that he take over most of it with Nemo in the shadows watching.
Maxx
Maxx
Adept
Number of posts: 337
Location: North Dakota
Registration date: 2008-07-01
Additional info from AB
by Maxx on 3/9/2008, 2:40 pm
In reading the bible, it is obvious that I would associate with the Guardian decription. After reading the three, there is not even a small question.
Under Oclujmancy, This subject had been dealt with in the past by Nemo and he gives a few simple exercises to accomplish this. I do believe that Nemo is able to accomplish this himself. Under psychic attact, I will have to say the same. Also, there were excercises to take over another body and effect movements and change thoughts and actions of the target body. Even I have taken over Burt Reynolds body twice so I know this works.
As mentioned, Nemo has acquired much knowledge of the actions of the Asetian Bible. A possible renegade. But in the overall reading of the bilble, I find that Nemo has been just giving part info to the TOV members as a general rule and telling anyone that joins and pays their monthly dues, he is telling them they are immortal and will live forever if they remain in good standing of the Temple. Myself, having rebelled from his tripe, I am classified as being nothing but a mortal and will die because I do not pledge my oath to his group as it is the only group that can give immortality to anyone. A simple cult that actually takes the individuals that are outside the mainstream social groupls and is telling them that they are very special and that is why they do not mingle and feel comfortable with others. He has really pulled the wool over the eyes of many."
"I am actually printing this to enable those that run across that group to not waste your time with this outfit. I spent 5 years within its framework and although I learned quite a bit, the organization turned into nothing but a cult. I also suspect that Nemo has an investment in the cryonics locations in this country as he is now making it manatory to move up in grade and rank that you join and be frozen upon death for your body to be brought back by science in the future.
Now, in comparision, I find the Assetian Bible much more informative and it deals with the subjects in a more intelligent manner. As far as Nemo stating the Assetians deal in murder and they drink blood, LOL. He uses a topic to dump everyone in the catagory. I can see from reading the bible that Physchic attack in drawing the lifeforce to death would only be used in a necessary situation, not as normal operating mode.
All in all, I am certainly glad I listened to my internal machine and left the TOV. I, also, am very satisfied with what I have found in the AB. I hope in a small way that I have helped a few that could possible be thinking of the TOV, that this is a very cultish group not worthy of your time.
Regards,
Maxx"
http://www.dailywingnut.com/ML/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=14&posts=19
Posted 2009-05-27 2:05 PM (#63 - in reply to #34)
Subject: RE: Temple of the Vampire- Ancient secret or wingnut religion?
Hey there
Great stuff, let me spill a bit more.
1) The organization that "Nemo" belonged to was the Temple of Set. He didn't spout Vampire nonsense while he was there, although the ToV began as the Kthulhu Pylon in Washington state. Interesting, most of the current higher-ups of the Church of Satan were one-time Temple of Set members, including Peter Gilmore. Research and you will find more info and fascinating history. Michael Aquino's Church of Satan and Temple of Set history PDF's are invaluable.
2) Nemo is also known as Lucas Martel, and his real name is George Smith. He is totally into cryonics and all of that pseudo-medicine crap.
3) Although they declare up and down that they are not a cult, they do strongly urge members to purchase ToV business cards - i.e. buy my advertisements and pass them out - just like product logo shirts.
Well, that should get the ball rolling anyway. Don't let the OoPs get you!
Matt
p.s. OoPs = The Order of Prometheus - an inner police circle of the ToV. They look for anyone spilling the truth about the Temple, and usually try to have message boards posts, etc. removed. Do a Google search for Vampire Bible and scroll to the bottom. Click the DMA alert. You'll see what I mean. The OoPs is the Temples police/clean up crew."
It's as if they copied it out of the Ruby Tablet straight into the Predator Bible.
I wonder if the ToV can legally have this in the Predator Bible unless George owns the copyright to this?
I suppose that being a vampire, you are recommending a steady diet of Human blood, as this is what seems to work in the movies. I doubt we can safely follow that assumption to it's logical end as it presents a whole logistical problem for our fledgling creatures of the night.
As a former tov member (at least when I was a member), Zenaphobe's assertion that ToV members are drinkers of real blood is wrong. The fact, when I was there, was that ToV members believe they can take astral/spiritual (whatever term one wishes to use) to take energy from humans and nothing illegal.
Otherwise, most of what this poster is saying is fairly accurate and funny.
I still remain objective when it comes to the occult yet I doubt the ToV is the "one true way" after my research.
Joking, it also feels like the CoS has been invaded by the ToS, in some sense after knowing what I know. Lol! I also wonder if Peter Gilmore is really an ex-ToS member as the other poster claimed.
From the way things look and sound they might as well reunite the ToS with the CoS since the ToV is the CoS's way of having the ToS teachings for "nostalgic" former ToS members. I may be wrong and this may not be true yet this is what I suspect.
Perhaps Mr.Private's discovery is the flaw that you mentioned that you discovered in the ToV's VB about 40 or 50 pages back?
In my opinion Mr.Private, what it is that you are stating in the above is that, ToV teachings aren't as sacred as Nemo claims.
I would say...good find and great content for this page and it's loyal fans.
I also say...
Hail Satan!
Hail EiS!
Hail p.133
Hail Outstanding Difference #5
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying and it is pretty easy to find this document online to see for one's self.
Additionally, it backs up what other ex-members and Usenet postings are saying about George Smith and Aquino saying about him being an ex-ToS member.
And, once again, you can go back to the CoS website where Nemo states he was once a member of some organization that he didn't name that almost ruined his life.
Yet I do understand that if one did not own a Vampire Predator Bible then they will not be able to see this. Then again, for the ToV member reading this, this document mentions WTW, BTE, and deidentification which have been mentioned in the First Circle ToV forums. Ergo, if you are a Lifeforce member then you may be able to validate this for yourself by reading the aforementioned document which is found online with ease.
I had read The Predator Bible and I'm very familiar with these texts in the links above. Rex Church also contributed to The Ruby Tablet of Set I heard, though I have yet to read what he has written.
So The Temple of the Vampire is a blatent ripoff of the Temple of Set. I wonder why Michael Aquino hasn't done anything about it. Surely he knows. This would be his golden opportunity to bring down the CoS. Obviously, he's not taking action for a reason. I wonder what's in it for him...
The plot thickens! 🧛
I'm currently reading Michael Aquino's E-book, "The Church of Satan." I just started it and I find his analysis and perception of LaVey to be way off the mark and it's completely obvious his assessment of him is bias. Michael Aquino has his own agenda. It's clear when you read his words. I almost abandoned the book out of boredom but perhaps it is worth a read considering that what he says about most other members and CoS is at least half true.
I think ToV is on it's was to being debunked..not even on the basis of whether or not it's practices are real but on a factual basis....
Their claims have been proven false in terms of timeline.
There new recruits had no knowledge of what has recently been presented here and those that had knowledge were high enough up in the organization that they were being greased or strong-armed to keep quiet.
What I fear is that most of the new recruits are too stupid to do any research, rather they will blindly fall victim to the cult and it's over-weight cripple of a leader.
What are you going to do Nemo...behind your 20" widescreen monitor you are a coward.
So what, you were on Art Bell...So was a guy that claimed he found a hole in which you could hear the sounds from hell!
Just like a Polygamist-Mormon Cult Leader, you will be brought to justice.
Unless Dr.Aquino is in on the killtaker, one might thing that he would be up-in-arms over the copyright infringement or maybe just the copycat infringement!
At the very least I would expect him to call them all F'ing Posers!
One might consider the following:
Hail Satan!
Hail EiS!
Hail P.133!
Hail OUTSTANDING DIFFERENCE #5
The accusations against Magister Diabolus Rex Church and Magister Nemo on this thread are reprehensible. None of you know anything of those involved or their purposes. Your conjecture approaches criminality.
I understand why you think that yet that is a big conclusion to jump to.
The fact remains that I did find an article written by a ToS member in the Ruby Tablet document yet this only means that "part" of the Vampire Bible was written by a former ToS member.
I did say some things about how I felt about the ToV being heavily influenced by the ToS yet those were just my own personal assumptions and I never stated they were "fact"(or didn't mean to) yet I still have those feelings.
Also, there is no real solid evidence that the writer of this section in the RToS is Nemo either; however, it is my strong suspicion/personal opinion it is. And when I found this section of writing by accident, it did suggest to me that the Vampire Bible may not be as sacred as some thought like Rupert stated.
I also agree with another here that you have to take anything Aquino writes with a grain of salt.
Also, it seems that many ex-Temple members in other forums and in old usenet posts are claiming that Nemo and Rex are ex-ToS members, not me, I am just posting what I found out in cyberspace being posted by others.
Personally, I don't think all these posters are all liars because why are they all saying the same thing in different places and I feel where there is smoke there may be fire.
Correction, I mean the Predator Bible.
To Private; My accusations are not concerned with you. You have at worst only represented other posts from unreliable sources as proof.
Green Fairy; You have made unsupported claims that the Church of Satan actively promoted the Temple; That hierarchy members have been suckered in; That Magisters other than Ventrue and Nemo are members; That a priest attacked the Temple on Myspace for illegal activity; That you know the names of the Council of Nine (PREPOSTEROUS!); That members not admitted to have been Setians were in the Temple of Set; That Church of Satan members have been blacklisted for activity against the Temple of the Vampire; That >>>90% of CoS members who join now ONLY did so because they see that people they respect among the hierarchy as well as other intelligent good standing members are joining.<<<; And most absurdly: ">>>I do know everyone, interact with them and have been around long enough to witness all of the important things and have inside information from the people who matter.<<<"
When asked to back this up, Green Fairy left for weeks. I say again: Name your names; Support your claims; admit your lies; or leave forever.
I have absolutely no problem answering your questions to the best of my ability.
I did answer your questions last time and so did a million other people. There are numerous links throughout this forum that also answer every single question you have asked.
As for personal conversations I've had with people within the CoS who revealed these things to me - I cannot prove that. You can either believe me or not. I do not care. I never expected anyone to take my word for it. Just sharing information. Take it or leave it. It's up to you.
Here are some answers to your questions that are common knowledge to everyone but you:
>>The Church of Satan has never in any way promoted the Temple.<<
The CoS website does not list the ToV under their links page like any other website they support, but as a SOURCE - which to me, carries more weight:
http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/Sources.html
Promotion of Nemo's Temple of the Vampire interview on Art Bell
http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/News39.html
The CoS Emporium sells ToV merchandise:
http://www.cosemporium.com/home.php
Radio Free Satan has corny ToV commercials every 15 minutes throughout the show.
http://www.radiofreesatan.com/links.html
>>Show me the Warlocks, Reverends and Agents you know who have been suckered in and I'll credit you more. I know of only a few Warlocks, no Reverends and no Agents who are in the Temple.<<
Well, I cannot say that the Magisters running the show were suckered in. Everyone else? Pretty much...
Magister Phineas, Magistra Isabel, Magister Rex, Magister Lang, Magister Ventrue, Magister Harris, Reverend Entity, Reverend Daark, Warlock Caesar, Warlock Draconis Blackthorne, Warlock Corvis Nocturnum, Witch Josephine, Warlock Dark_Adept, Warlock Linguacelestia
This is but a tiny list I can think of off the top of my head. If you are a member of Lifeforce, you will see a lot more names. I gave you the source, now go do your homework.
>>I would also like to know how you knew which Magisters are on the council.<<
I already told you I found out via a private conversation I had with Rex Church.
>>Then prove which of its members were once Setians. I know of none.<<
Article on CoS website written by Nemo where he admits being involved in a pseudo-Satanic cult:
http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/PseudoS.html
Website with Alt.satanism archive conversations between Aquino, Ygraine and ex-Rev, Borg:
http://sonic.net/yronwode/arcane-archive.org/religion/satanism/first-church-of-satan/cos-files/ygraine-will-and-aquino-2.php
I can no longer find Alt.satanism. Strange being that it was up a few months ago. That site is loaded with bickering between CoS and ToS dating back to 1994. Somewhere in this forum - you're going to have to do your own homework now - there is an Alt.satanism link providing a conversation between Nemo and Aquino. In that thread, Aquino reminds Nemo of his ToS roots and referring to him as George Smith.
>>I have never heard of a card carrying member of the Church of Satan being blacklisted for anti-vampyric activity.<<
A reverend I know, who shall remain nameless because he's still very active told me that he was not invited to a CoS Cabal Magister Lang and Ventrue organized a few years ago because he was vocal about his dislike for the ToV. He also told me and another Reverend similar stories of other people.
There you go. Aside from personal conversations, I gave you plenty of sources that are good proof. It is up to you now to do your own homework. If none of this information opens up your eyes I do not know what will.
>>Everyone? You don't even know me. Unless you are Magistra Jantsang or Jesus of Borg you are a liar. All 3 are deplorable.<<
Looks like you just told on yourself. You sound every bit as bitchy, whiny, touchy and uneducated as Ygraine herself. And if you are, we do indeed know each other.
I am not Magistra Ygraine. If you know Magistra Ygraine I will eat my hat.
The information you provided regarding the Ruby Tablet of Set speaks volumes. Whether or not Nemo himself wrote it is irrelevant. It's clear that someone plagiarized portions of the RToS and put it into the Predator Bible. Does it really matter who it is? HP Gilmore and The Church of Satan are supporting a cult that plagiarizes the rival organization they despise and discredit - The Temple of Set.
The ties between the CoS and ToS, past and present are obvious. I'm only puzzled as to why Michael Aquino has done nothing about this. I know which message board he frequents, perhaps I shall ask him...
He's always begging for attention and cutting down the CoS on these boards. If he plays ignorant or remains tight-lipped on this then that's cause for suspicion.
I gave you plenty of names and sources. You completely looked over the concrete evidence in the links provided throughout this entire forum and focused on my personal conversations with certain individuals. How weak is that. If you insist on playing dumb be my guest. The only one who loses is you.
Enough evidence has been posted. If the Ruby Tablet of Set/Predator Bible connection does not convince you, then you are either A. severely brainwashed and/or in denial B. you are an official trying your damnest to protect the CoS and ToV while failing miserably.
I wouldn't be surprised if you are Ygraine. Who else would mention Jantsang or Jesus of Borg? Not to mention, she is the only official with nothing better to do (being a bored housewife) who frequents messageboards getting into petty fights. Your delivery is also pretty similar.
You say you met Magister Rex and Magistra Ygraine yet treat both with zero respect; You claim to know things that nobody but Magistra Barton, Magus Gilmore and High Priestess Nadramaia know. Not even members of the Council of Nine know who is in the Council of Nine.
Come out and say who you are and prove your access to the names you won't say. Or stay anonymous and say their names. Otherwise you are nothing.
>>>If the Ruby Tablet of Set/Predator Bible connection does not convince you<<<
Of what? Read my posts. I am no fan of the Temple of the Vampire.
I have never seen a Church of Satan official defend them. The promotions you listed are small and insignificant. They are listed between bats and burlesque. Others are for profit.
I would think less of the Church of Satan if they prohibited members from joining the Temple of the Vampire. They allow Nazis. Someday they will even allow active Setians. They let people make their own mistakes. This is stratification.
I am not Magistra Ygraine. I think Magistra Ygraine would avoid mentioning Jantsang and Jesus. She has much better things to do than this. She is busy keeping us all from getting lynched. Have some damn respect.
I didn't say anything disrespectful about Magister Rex. As for Ygraine, I never cared for her. Just because we met doesn't mean we're pals. The woman has issues.
>>Not even members of the Council of Nine know who is in the Council of Nine.<<
That makes absolutely no sense.
>>Come out and say who you are and prove your access to the names you won't say. Or stay anonymous and say their names. Otherwise you are nothing.<<
I would love to, because personally I have absolutely nothing to lose. But unfortunately I know others that do. Revealing my identity or even dropping names anonymously will get certain people expelled.
I still have friends in the Church of Satan who although agree with me, still wish to maintain their ranks for their own reasons. They are aware I am posting here and only request I remain anonymous until they are ready to leave. I have to grant them that respect.
If this makes me nothing in your eyes then so be it. I do not know you and even if you are who I suspect you to be, I can care less about you. So this is something I can totally live with.
You do not need to know who I am. The sources I have given you as well as everyone else has provided on the forum should be enough. You're grasping at straws.
>>I am no fan of the Temple of the Vampire.<<
You seem to be pretty passionate about the topic.
>>I have never seen a Church of Satan official defend them.<<
Oh no? You must not spend any time on LttD or Lifeforce for that matter.
>>The promotions you listed are small and insignificant.<<
Selling ToV ritual items along with Church of Satan ritual items and merchandise is hardly insignificant. The ToV should keep their shit on their own website. Also, listing the Temple as a SOURCE rather than a link on the CoS website is not insignificant either.
>>I am not Magistra Ygraine. I think Magistra Ygraine would avoid mentioning Jantsang and Jesus. She has much better things to do than this. She is busy keeping us all from getting lynched. Have some damn respect.<<
You sure seem very touchy whenever she is mentioned. She IS stupid enough to mention those people. Out of the entire bunch, she is one of the least intelligent and a drama queen. Ygraine has done absolutely nothing to earn my respect.
The accusations against Magister Diabolus Rex Church and Magister Nemo on this thread are reprehensible. None of you know anything of those involved or their purposes. Your conjecture approaches criminality."
Are you kidding me!
I have considered your posts within this discussion (up to this point) to be a fairly good contribution, keeping the representation of both sides strong.
Please spare us all your desperate attempts at strong-arming. Nobody here has stated anything as fact, this is a discussion of opinion and will remain so.
If you can't take the heat get out of Hell's Kitchen!
You can always go home to LttD and hide under your blanket of censorship.
Finish the book you are reading. It explains that members of the Council of Nine have not been formally introduced to each other since the 1960s. They are asked their opinions separately. Also the name is an occult reference; The Council of Nine doesn't have exactly nine people on it. If you believe Aquino.
I care more about the division and petty bickering regarding the Temple than I do about its association with the Church of Satan.
I am not on Lifeforce but I can access LttD if you have links of hierarchy Temple defense. Advertising is not limited to Satanic books and merchandise nor should it be. People can sell incense and books on homosexuality there. This does not mean the Church of Satan supports gay agendas or smells. The source page lists the Temple between bats and burlesque. Both are quite insignificant to most Satanists. As is the Temple.
I am touchy to see a woman who actively defends us all so disrespected by anyone who enjoys the protection her actions take. Magistra Ygraine is a fine woman who does the most important work the Church of Satan requires.
Rupert; When people make claims they should back them up. When they make insulting and scandalous claims; people who the claims are made against have every right to demand they back themselves up. How is it censorship to demand more information?
It's all in the approach, above you have made a legitimate point and you have retracted the defensive posturing.
It makes for better conversation....here anyways. I wouldn't have bothered to interject a friggin thing if you would have initially engaged Green Fairy in more of a diplomatic tone.
Not that I'm at all worried about GF's ability to defend him/her self, I just can't tolerate the LttD governing body mindset here.
I'll do all I can to stomp that fire out.
Lesser Magic at it's finest...you should know that.
In my opinion what you demand for is out of line, what you ask for is quite in line.
You are either deliberately pretending not to know this information or you are in complete denial. Everyone knows Magister Rex is a ToV Vampire Adept. He says so himself. Check out his Myspace profile.
http://www.myspace.com/diabolusrex
It has been noted several times on here by people who have read the document that Magister Rex contributed rituals to the Ruby Tablet of Set. You're going to have to download that document to see for yourself. I'm not going to do it for you.
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/174/P240/
http://ineedfile.com/the-ruby-tablet-of-set
>> members of the Council of Nine have not been formally introduced to each other since the 1960s. They are asked their opinions separately.<<
Again, I'm only going by what was told to me by hierarchy. You keep trying to shoot the messenger. Take that information however you want to. *Shrugs*
>>I am not on Lifeforce but I can access LttD if you have links of hierarchy Temple defense<<
That's unfortunate because Lifeforce is the best source for this. They are more open about it there. I'm no longer a member of LttD since Ventrue started charging, so I cannot run proper searches. You'll have to look that up yourself. One only need to search under "ToV" to encounter all of the posts from hierarchy that either deter discussion of the group or defend them from criticism.
>>The source page lists the Temple between bats and burlesque. Both are quite insignificant to most Satanists. As is the Temple.<<
That's not true. The Sources page is mostly bedrock Satanic literature by LaVey and CoS hierarchy, music and important projects by members of the CoS. If the ToV was insignificant they would be in the links section. Not listed under SOURCES for The Church of Satan.
>>I am touchy to see a woman who actively defends us all so disrespected by anyone who enjoys the protection her actions take.<<
I do not need Magistra Ygraine's protection. She's not very well liked by many. The woman has issues. Your mention of the former Rev. Borg, Jantsang, hysterical demanding tone and contant cheerleading for her raise suspicions you very well may be her.
Or at least someone close to her. It is obvious you remain completely biased regardless of the evidence presented to you.
Did I make any claims against you? I was talking about Ygraine. This statement you just made is so telling and also helps prove my suspicion regarding who you really are.
I wonder what led you to to believe they would allow active Setians someday?
I thought the CoS considered the Temple of Set to be a rival organization because of its attacks against Anton LaVey and his organization. I am sorry yet I highly doubt the CoS will show mutual admiration for the ToS.
And for non-CoS/ToV members in this forum here is a quote about the Church of Satan and politics:
"The Church of Satan is not a NAZI organization. As has been said many times before, one
I tried to shoot the messenger because he would not reveal who sent the message. I was rude because the accusations you related involved me secondhand and were not true. For the last time I am not Magistra Ygraine.
The page you linked was as I described it. The Temple is exactly as important a source as the bat rescue and burlesque show. The Sources page is not the Theory and Practice page.
Defense of a good woman whose personal issues are none of our concern is not cheerleading. You will also notice that Ygraine has mentioned Borg once in her blogs and Jantsang not at all. The only people who mention them these days are Church of Satan detractors such as Aquino and Schreck.
The Church of Satan allows members of any other non-contradictory organization to join. The Temple of Set has gradually changed and continues to change into a being compatible if not at all similar to the Church of Satan. Soon they will be as acceptable to the Church of Satan on paper as the O.T.O.. When Aquino dies there will be no further reason to deny a member to explore the mystical side of the path.
Some Satanists recognize that a stick alone is weak but many bound together are strong. I'm surprised your source hasn't accused Magus Gilmore of being one of them too. Tell me please; does your source think Magus Gilmore is a former Setian; Vampire or member of the American Fascist Party?
The temple exists still. they will continue to attract members. hell christianity is even more bullshit than the temple and thats been around for over 2,000 years..so my question is what is the purpose of this website and post? to expose the temple? okay so you've done that...now what?
also if you say to detract members from the church of satan and temple remember those words in the satanic bible about man being his own redeemer. this forum is even more anti-satanic than the temple of the vampire could ever be.
There is no support of "mysticism" in Satanism the last time I checked.
Some Satanists recognize that a stick alone is weak but many bound together are strong.
"The use of the adjective
"1. When someone claims to have a direct line of communication with Satan[undead gods], watch out. Selling that kind of mysticism is exactly how Christianity has kept people enslaved in ignorance for centuries. <b>It
What the Church of Satan says and does are two completely different things...as evidenced with the whole ToV nonsense.
And once again, we return to the argument that anyone who is against the ToV, questions it or questions the support of it by the CoS is not Satanic or acting like a heretic... :zip: :roll:
Also, its not fair for the hierarchy to get mad at Satanists who have never been members of the Temple or who didn't get results as ToV members to wonder why the CoS is against belief in conjuring external entities when one comes to the Temple's website stating:
"THE CALLING OF THE UNDEAD GODS
In exquisite and careful detail, you will learn exactly what to do in order to meet the most advanced Vampires in a direct and powerful manner.
We know who has honestly obtained these instructions from us.
If you have been honest with us, we will come to you."
I invite you to picture this, picture being a Satanist who is against belief in external anthropomorphic entities and now imagine what they think when reading the above quote or reading in the vampire bible about conjuring the undead in your chamber. Got the idea? Wouldn't you be a bit confused as a Satanist as to why this organization is supported by atheistic symbolic Satanists?
So now can you understand why some of us here have a beef with their judgement and support of the ToV? It just seems like one big contradiction.
Its not like this type of person is out to attack the CoS; they are just saying in their head, "What this Hell is this and how is this compatible with Satanism from the CoS's perspective?"
And then the Satanist who is was in alignment with the CoS's non-theistic views is left confused. Basically, the whole attitude displayed in this forum is a "What the Hell!" and "its all Bull" type of attitude. Seriously, can you not understand why some CoS members here, on LTTD and elsewhere are concerned?
http://www.satannet.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=361312#Post361312
Is the poster LoneNights a "bad guy" or not a Satanist for questioning what he perceives as a contradiction to Satanism? I don't think so yet he or she was quickly silenced with verbal judo which is VERY suspicious. :zip:
"Often the Church of Satan is accused of being a great big organization where members must never question the hierarchy. This is not true."--A Critique taken from Magistra Ytraine's Various Satanic Rants
http://magistrayrainetwo.blogspot.com/
Anyway, we have already questioned and said what we chose to say so its a bit late to try and tell us to shut up. :zip: :lol:
Sorry, this isn't LTTD...
LttD is not the Church of Satan. LttD is a hangout for many Satanists which is run by a Satanist and Vampire. It reflects both. That is Magister Frost's right.
I have never been dissatisfied or ignored in asking questions of the hierarchy. I have questioned posts; essays; books and policies of Dr. LaVey, Magus Gilmore and many Magisters. I have also questioned them personally about the Temple of the Vampire. I have always been answered fully in that matter leading to my present views of the situation.
But I have honored their demands not to be questioned about it on LttD. Respect Magister Frost's rules in his domain. But ask freely; and to the poster who claimed to be waiting for a reply from Magus Gilmore himself; He has better things to do. Why not ask an agent?
Also I was speaking about those who did talk shit about the CoS. This wasn't everyone but certainly there is no shortage around here.
So coming here and creating a massive stink based upon lack of understanding is resolving this issue? Has posting here succeeded in solving anyones curiosity? I mean seriously. What would concern me most is living adults would all gravitate here and just post random complaints. I am just wondering if this forum has succeeded in anything? I mean what is the major goal here? Can that even be answered?