54 of 56
54
Nambudripad’s Allergy Elimination Techniques, NAET.  Expensive quackery or miracle treatment?
Posted: 04 February 2012 02:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 584 ]
Five Star Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6930
Joined  2005-10-21

Yep… which is A: What we expected. B: What we found, and C: pretty much their entire business model in a nutshell.

Unlike a lot of ‘holistic’ ‘natural’ ‘healing’ techniques, these guys seem to be fully aware that they are running a scam, rather than just being deluded as to the power of their magical nostrums.

 Signature 

1: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If it does what it says, you should have no problem with this.
2: What proof will you accept that you are wrong? You ask us to change our mind, but we cannot change yours?
3: It is not our responsability to disprove your claims, but rather your responsability to prove them.
4. Personal testamonials are not proof.

What part of ‘meow’ don’t you understand?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 February 2012 05:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 585 ]
New Member
Rank
Total Posts:  2
Joined  2012-02-08

I am going to be upfront about my position, I think naet is a false. I am definitely in the ‘expensive quackery’ camp, to borrow the expression from the thread title. However, I think practitioners and patients are often unwitting accomplices. Yes, even practitioners. I don’t believe, though I can’t say for sure, that practitioners are actively and knowingly perpetuating scams. But who knows.

At any rate, I have several family members that have been deeply, deeply involved with naet for close to 1.5 years now.

First it was family member x. (Going to keep everything anonymous in the rare event they do research and discover this, wouldn’t want them to have hurt feelings and such).

Family member x had strong food allergy for many years. Many doctors treated, nothing worked. This person stumbled across naet and, it worked. At the time, when this person was able to eat what had been off the table before, everyone was overjoyed, and intrigued. I bought in at the outset.  I hadn’t a clue what naet was. All I know is that my family member was now able to eat anything.

Then…the naet practitioner begins treating for other allergies…on a weekly. Basis. Another family member begins getting treatments. On a near weekly basis. And another fam member. And another. And another infant fam member. Getting treatments on near weekly basis. It has become simply a way of life. When I go to this family’s house, it’s not like I’m going to their house, it’s more like going to Planet NAET. They eat, breathe, and sleep naet.

They have been told they are allergic to some truly outrageous allergens. One member was ‘allergic’ to their spouse. “Allergic” to a mother-in-law. “Allergic” to money. If I had a dollar for every allergen they are allegedly allergic to, I would not be here writing this, I’d be out driving in my new Ferrari. But there’s the ‘distance naet’, the magic all purpose vial that was given to a family member on the go, the treatment by proxy through another family member. Look, it’s beyond nutty at this point.

With all these allergies they’ve had, I don’t know how on Earth they got on before naet??? They were always pretty fine to me! And how do they have any money left? That is another question. I don’t dare ask how much money they’ve sunk into this. It is absolutely going to be a sore subject in the future. I won’t even go there.

At any rate, does anyone here have experience with friends or family that are deeply entrenched in naet? I’ve just sent an email to one family member with just a bit of an inquiry. I just want to dialogue a little. We’ll see where it goes. But any tips or advice that anyone has on how best to relate with naet ‘addicts’ would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 February 2012 05:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 586 ]
Five Star Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6930
Joined  2005-10-21

Welcome to the forum!

Sadly, a lot of folks will, once they’ve ‘picked their pony’, actively ignore any evidence that they are in some way wrong. Its what scam artists rely on for the long-term swindle, so they’ll keep dropping money because it ‘works’. All appeals to rationality and common sense will be useless… Pointing out flaws, or even criminal activities is futile… It’s a vicious thing, and scammers know it well.

My advice is to just continue to express skepticism every time the topic comes up: ‘NAET? Oh, you mean that new-age crystal dolphin telepathy thingy? You’re still doing that?’. Don’t argue on the subject: they’ll try and convince you they are ‘right’, and in so doing, convince themselves. Polite, but pointed changing of the subject will make them realize that you do not approve. Given human nature, where approval means a great deal, this may cause them to question the technique, as it clearly annoys you…

 Signature 

1: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If it does what it says, you should have no problem with this.
2: What proof will you accept that you are wrong? You ask us to change our mind, but we cannot change yours?
3: It is not our responsability to disprove your claims, but rather your responsability to prove them.
4. Personal testamonials are not proof.

What part of ‘meow’ don’t you understand?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 February 2012 05:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 587 ]
New Member
Rank
Total Posts:  2
Joined  2012-02-08

I’ll take that advice, thanks Robin.

For the record, I believe the ‘active ingredient’ with naet which ‘cured’ my family member, is placebo effect. I failed to mention that in my post which was made in haste. I’ll reply as events transpire.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 February 2012 05:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 588 ]
New Member
Rank
Total Posts:  3
Joined  2012-02-03
Jacob Teitelbaum MD - 18 January 2012 08:54 PM

I have no financial ties to the NAET or NARF organization.

I will add for complete disclosure that my wife is one of the over 10,000 health practitioners worldwide using NAET.

I think Jacob Teitelbaum grossly understates his ties to NAET. He gives the impression that only his wife is a NAET practitioner, but this NAET newsletter tells us that he also practices NAET, “... Dr. Jacob Teitelbaum, an NAET practitioner since 1998 ... .” Both he and his wife, Laurie Teitelbaum, have also been deeply involved with Nambudripad’s Allergy Research Foundation for some time, holding positions on the educational committee, research committee and editorial board. They now seem to be the number 2 and 3 under Devi Nambudripad at the NAET journal. His adverts are littered throughout NAET materials, he is a regular speaker at NAET conferences and he has appeared on TV to publicise NAET (in 2005 I think). To see the depth of connection just glance through the mentions of him dotted throughout NAET materials (e.g.).

Jacob Teitelbaum came here to push ‘evidence’ for NAET, so I’ll leave some comments on this. No research on NAET has been performed by any independent researcher, the only studies are the ones conducted by Nambudripad and her employees or NAET practitioners. There are two review articles that mention NAET, one by Teuber & Porch-Curren in 2003 (1) and another by Morris in 2006 (2). Both are negative on NAET and the first one emphasises the very real danger of a patient incorrectly believing that they are cured of allergies. The only medical association inclined to look at NAET, the Australasian Society of Clinical Immunology and Allergy, recommends that NAET should not be used (3). In contrast to NAET itself there is much more evidence on Applied Kinesiology (AK), the primary technique used in NAET to diagnose allergies. Proper, independent studies have been performed that demonstrate this method is no better than random guessing at diagnosing allergies. Several articles that review the available evidence in the medical literature on the use of AK in allergy diagnosis exist and these are overwhelmingly negative, describing AK as pseudoscience, fallacious and ineffective (4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10). A broad array of medical allergy associations recommend that AK should not be used (e.g. AAAAI (10), NIAID (11), EAACI (12), NICE (13) and ASCIA (3)). Another diagnostic technique occasionally used in NAET is a form of electrodermal testing similar to the Vega test (which several physicians have been disciplined for using by various medical bodies e.g. (14)), like AK this has been discredited by independent studies and numerous review articles and medical associations describe it as useless and recommend it not be used (see above refs, most of them also cover electrodermal testing). So while we can’t definitively say that the acupressure treatment of allergies in NAET is ineffective (although incredibly likely) we can categorically state that NAET techniques can’t diagnose allergies.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 March 2012 05:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 589 ]
New Member
Rank
Total Posts:  1
Joined  2012-03-06

I have some experience with NAET. My wife used to do it in our office.

No, it doesn’t work for everybody, it is labor intensive with dozens of treatments to get the best results and each treatment only treats one allergen.

That aside, many people have great results. We have helped thousands of people and there are some that we haven’t. Thats just the way it is. It’s called life

That’s why we created The Allergy Kit. The Allergy Kit is very loosely based on NAET, but all the negatives have been removed.

1. If it doesn’t work, you don’t have to pay for it. A NAET practitioner can’t say that.

It’s a home treatment protocol based on energy medicine. This allows you to put the power of healing in your hands. It’s really easy to do and you can get started eliminating your allergies right now. You don’t use it up and you can treat all the members in your family. 

2. We treat multiple allergies at the same time. This way, you can treat almost all food allergies in the basic kit which is 7 vials, 7 treatments. Less than a month and you will be feeling much better.

3. Sometimes the treatment doesn’t work the first time. So if that happens, you simply treat yourself again. Most of the time, it does work the first time, but everyone is different.

4. It’s much cheaper than going to a practitioner. And you save lots of time.

You should check it out. We have a practice and have applied what we learned in the office what works and applied it to The Allergy Kit.

And it’s fast. In less than a month, you can get a real head start on getting your health back and you just might be able to say, I used to have allergies.

Here’s the link.

http://www.theallergykit.com

Watch the video on the home page. There’s a great testimonial that you can hear during the interview with Dr Ben Johnson. He is the only medical doctor featured in the hit movie “The Secret” and he interviews myself and Dr Ynge Ljung, the founder of The Allergy Kit.

PS We have a promotion. We are so sure that it will work, we have a promotion that allows you to try it before you buy it. Just pay $1 plus shipping and we will bill you the balance in 35 days. How does it get any better than that. A money back guarantee and a way that shows that we are putting our money where our mouth. Check it out before the promotion is gone.  It will change your life. We guarantee it.

Herb

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 March 2012 03:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 590 ]
Five Star Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6930
Joined  2005-10-21

Uh huh. Before we get started, I would like to remind you that you came here. If you expect to be taken seriously, then you will need to play by our rules. Don’t complain about getting wet if you jump into the pool.

Now then - being a practicioner, perhaps you would like to answer some of the multiple questions we have asked of the other snake-oil salesfolk that have been through here. Simple questions, really. Ones a legitimate medical provider should have no questions answering. For some reason they always shy away from answering them.

Let’s start with a simple one, shall we?

What assurance do we have that your process is safe? You’re claiming ‘energy healing’, so what exactly are the long-term effects of exposure to this energy? Can you provide any study findings that show it to be harmless?

No, we won’t accept ‘oh, it’s safe, trust us’ as a response. What we want is figures. This process has been in use for a while now, so we should be seeing plenty of long-term data. What percentage of recipients have developed cancerous tumors? How many of them have died from brain disorders? Blood clots? Dutch Elm?

Of course, if it’s true that your techniques do not, in fact, do anything at all, that the ‘energy’ is just a load of marketing bullcrap, then you should easily be able to provide statistics showing it to be absolutely safe. Since there have NOT been any study results showing the safety of these procedures, one has to wonder if perhaps they are NOT safe, and that the practicioners are carefully and discreetly pushing aside any evidence that their ‘energy healing’ is causing more deaths than commercially comfortable.

After all, people used to tout the health benefits of daily doses of ‘life-giving’ Radium…

So yes - simple question - Safety. If you’re going to claim to be ‘medicine’, we’re going to hold you to the same standards. Provide some documents, please.

 Signature 

1: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If it does what it says, you should have no problem with this.
2: What proof will you accept that you are wrong? You ask us to change our mind, but we cannot change yours?
3: It is not our responsability to disprove your claims, but rather your responsability to prove them.
4. Personal testamonials are not proof.

What part of ‘meow’ don’t you understand?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 May 2012 04:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 591 ]
Five Star Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6930
Joined  2005-10-21

Congratulations, you have just pissed me off.

Yet another of the ‘some bad apples ruin the whole batch’ / ‘science isn’t perfect’ crowd. Get in line.

If you can point me towards a product on the shelves today for which the studies and clinical trials have the ‘flaws and misinterpretations’ you claim, please let me know. I would like to become very wealthy from the ensuing legal action. Otherwise, you don’t get to make such claims as representing ‘most of them’.

And just what the hell do you think a ‘clinical trial’ IS? Just slapping some pills on a petri dish? No, they ask folks if they would like to try something new, under rigorous scientific testing conditions, then record the results of their personal experience with the drug. Just like you asked for, so why are you complaining? If there is some ‘variable’ you would like accounted for, please, let the scientific community know, and they’ll test for that, too.

In any case, NAET /has been proven/ not to work. It’s not that it’s untested, unproven, and unknown, and therefore MIGHT work… No. It has been subjected to tests. People have tried it. The science is bogus, but it has been given the benefit of the doubt, and been given the same third-party tests. It has failed, every single time it is placed under proper conditions. It. Does. Not. Work. My only consolation with this crap is that since it does /nothing/, it is at least not harmful in and of itself. Of course, if someone fails to seek valid medical treatment for a serious condition…

You want ‘flaws and misinterpretations’? Look to the NAET community, who gleefully ignore or try to counter any arguments, just. as. you. are. doing. You know what this tells me? That this is not just some random person, trying to convince me to be open-minded, but rather an actual practitioner and seller of such filth, trying to defend the snake oil they fob off as medicine. How the hell do you sleep at night, knowing you’re preying upon the desperate? You soulless goddamn monster.

You can take your birthday wishes and stuff them where the sun doesn’t shine. If this causes you some discomfort, perhaps your magical nostrums will make you feel better.

 Signature 

1: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If it does what it says, you should have no problem with this.
2: What proof will you accept that you are wrong? You ask us to change our mind, but we cannot change yours?
3: It is not our responsability to disprove your claims, but rather your responsability to prove them.
4. Personal testamonials are not proof.

What part of ‘meow’ don’t you understand?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 May 2012 08:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 592 ]
Five Star Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2890
Joined  2005-06-15
rp47797 - 06 May 2012 08:45 PM

No offense, but it doesn’t seem to take much to piss you off. Your anger only hurts yourself. Anyway, answer this. Why do physicians use medications for off label use? There is no “proof” that it works, yet it’s done anyway. Don’t you think that there has been some positive clinical response that caused it to be tried this way? Physicians don’t wait for studies to be performed before using it off label. They use experience and their best judgement.
As for drugs on the shelves with conflicting studies…. Look up “conflicting studies on Chanitx or Antidepressants and suicide.” You have some studies showing there is no link and others showing there is. How about drugs that were put on the market with no apparent major side effects, yet were later pulled because it was found to cause significant heart damage and stroke. Vioxx, remember that one? There’s also Redux, Rezulin, etc.
You also have not proven or listed any study that has dis-proven the effectiveness of Naet either. The proof in that it works or not isn’t up to you, it’s the people it’s done on.

Never mind there is absolutely no proof that NAET works for “on label use”. Your illogic hurts our view of your arguments.

Where are the independent scientific studies of NAET that support your view that it works? To date not one of the supporters of NAET has been able to supply a link to one.

To answer the examples you brought up about other drugs, without researching those particular drugs I would say “two wrongs don’t make a right”. You can bring up all the examples you want about other drugs but it’s still a fact there is no proof that NAET is anything more than a waste of money.

 Signature 

I’m not some ordinary moron.
I’m an Oxy-Moron!

Mental Giant: A very tall person who is more than slightly confused.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 May 2012 09:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 593 ]
Five Star Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2890
Joined  2005-06-15
rp47797 - 06 May 2012 09:08 PM

On or off-label has nothing to do with Naet, rather the point was, that studies do not need to be performed for something to work. Example was with drugs that have off label use without studies or techniques that are used without studies. Clinical results are the proof.

I see you posted this while I was editing my last post, i.e.

Peter - 06 May 2012 08:49 PM

To answer the examples you brought up about other drugs, without researching those particular drugs I would say “two wrongs don’t make a right”. You can bring up all the examples you want about other drugs but it’s still a fact there is no proof that NAET is anything more than a waste of money.

Studies need to be performed to make sure a new drug doesn’t kill people. They also need to be performed to make sure the new drug does work. I will not recommend NAET to anyone as it now stands.

 Signature 

I’m not some ordinary moron.
I’m an Oxy-Moron!

Mental Giant: A very tall person who is more than slightly confused.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 May 2012 09:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 594 ]
Five Star Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2890
Joined  2005-06-15
rp47797 - 06 May 2012 09:13 PM

I agree, I wouldn’t recommend it either. I also wouldn’t tell someone not to do it.

Yes but if somebody is selling a product as a drug there are legal and moral issues involved with that. If I met someone who was taking a drug that was untested I would voice my opinion to them about it.

 Signature 

I’m not some ordinary moron.
I’m an Oxy-Moron!

Mental Giant: A very tall person who is more than slightly confused.

Profile
 
 
   
54 of 56
54