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Vivian Grey / Pyschic from Tennessee
Posted: 25 June 2007 04:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Yeah, I knew someone would try to whip out uncertainty on me. But, David nailed it. Plus, the UC in no way supports the idea that something works except when scientists are observing it.

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So I can just type anything and it will show up here?

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Posted: 25 June 2007 06:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Stargazer - 25 June 2007 08:58 PM

Plus, the UC in no way supports the idea that something works except when scientists are observing it.

Whatever New Scientist may think![*]

[* Actually this is to do with Bell’s theorem, not ‘uncertainty’, but it’s the same error.]

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Posted: 26 June 2007 01:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Isn’t there some condition or situation in particle physics, having to do with quantum physics, where you can measure the velocity of a particle, but not its direction, or conversely the other way around, or something somehow like that in some way?

The condition (or supposition) that caused Einstein in refutation to say, “God does not play dice with the Universe.”  That one.

Dan, nailing it down real good

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Posted: 26 June 2007 04:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Its hard to say if it was coldreading without being there but i would say that is most likely what happened. People being “read” some times have a selective memory and only remember the hits and forget all this misses. People often talk about being care full to not give anything away to test the psychic, but its hard to do so with out proper knowledge on coldreading.
Oh yeah and… You have a scar on your left knee…
Psychic.

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Posted: 26 June 2007 12:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Stargazer - 25 June 2007 08:58 PM

Yeah, I knew someone would try to whip out uncertainty on me. But, David nailed it. Plus, the UC in no way supports the idea that something works except when scientists are observing it.

No he didn’t, whenever you measure one you invalidate the other.

And it does mean that things change when observed.  Who the observer is doesn’t matter though, unlike in the paranormal world.

But it was simply a joke, not an attempt to support psychics and their excuses.

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Heaven must be really boring, if you think about it logically.
All the angels must be snoring.  Who could stand perfection for eternity?

Not me. - George Hrab

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Posted: 26 June 2007 01:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Charybdis - 26 June 2007 04:37 PM

No he didn’t, whenever you measure one you invalidate the other.

The same is true of bowling balls. To measure its speed you must allow it to change position; to measure its position you must do so instantaneously or the result is invalidated by the speed.

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Posted: 26 June 2007 02:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Yes David, I know that.  Nice of you to admit I was right for a change.  wink

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Heaven must be really boring, if you think about it logically.
All the angels must be snoring.  Who could stand perfection for eternity?

Not me. - George Hrab

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Posted: 27 June 2007 10:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Charybdis - 26 June 2007 04:37 PM
Stargazer - 25 June 2007 08:58 PM

Yeah, I knew someone would try to whip out uncertainty on me. But, David nailed it. Plus, the UC in no way supports the idea that something works except when scientists are observing it.

No he didn’t, whenever you measure one you invalidate the other.

That’s completely irrelevant. When you are testing for speed, you find the speed. When you are testing for psychic powers, you find nothing.

You are making a false comparison. Uncertainty just says that in that example, two certain things can’t be known at the same exact time. We aren’t talking about that. We are talking about whether something occurs constantly except when scientists are observing it. Note that the psychic doesn’t claim that no one can observe these things. They claim that scientists or people with a “bad attitude” can’t.

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So I can just type anything and it will show up here?

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Posted: 27 June 2007 10:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Dan Jr. - 26 June 2007 05:38 AM

Isn’t there some condition or situation in particle physics, having to do with quantum physics, where you can measure the velocity of a particle, but not its direction, or conversely the other way around, or something somehow like that in some way?

The condition (or supposition) that caused Einstein in refutation to say, “God does not play dice with the Universe.”  That one.

Dan, nailing it down real good

Yes, Dan, that’s what we are talking about. The Uncertainty Principle.

Also:

Einstein was mistaken according to Stephen Hawking in Does God Play Dice,

Einstein’s view was what would now be called, a hidden variable theory. Hidden variable theories might seem to be the most obvious way to incorporate the Uncertainty Principle into physics. They form the basis of the mental picture of the universe, held by many scientists, and almost all philosophers of science. But these hidden variable theories are wrong. The British physicist, John Bell, who died recently, devised an experimental test that would distinguish hidden variable theories. When the experiment was carried out carefully, the results were inconsistent with hidden variables. Thus it seems that even God is bound by the Uncertainty Principle, and can not know both the position, and the speed, of a particle. So God does play dice with the universe. All the evidence points to him being an inveterate gambler, who throws the dice on every possible occasion.

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So I can just type anything and it will show up here?

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Posted: 27 June 2007 12:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Stargazer - 27 June 2007 02:52 PM

That’s completely irrelevant. When you are testing for speed, you find the speed. When you are testing for psychic powers, you find nothing.

You are making a false comparison. Uncertainty just says that in that example, two certain things can’t be known at the same exact time. We aren’t talking about that. We are talking about whether something occurs constantly except when scientists are observing it. Note that the psychic doesn’t claim that no one can observe these things. They claim that scientists or people with a “bad attitude” can’t.

Once again you seem to be missing the JOKE aspect.  For the sake of posterity, my comment about uncertainty was meant as a joke and nothing else.  It was not intended in any way to be a support for paranormal phenomena. 

Nor is this post. 


Nor is my next post, wherever that might be.

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Heaven must be really boring, if you think about it logically.
All the angels must be snoring.  Who could stand perfection for eternity?

Not me. - George Hrab

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Posted: 27 June 2007 04:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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idea circus
I was just thinking about Vivian Grey today & thought I would google her when I came upon your post. Vivian Grey did exist and she was the “real thing.” I live in Knoxville, Tn & used to visit Vivian every week. She indeed was the “real thing.” Everything she ever told me came true! She was a sweet lady who I trusted & loved. I miss her very much! I am glad that you had the chance to meet her! I was blessed enough to live close enough to visit her often. There are alot of hoaxes out there…but Vivian was NOT one of them. Her body might have given up on her, but her mind didn’t. I believe she was there to bless us all with her sweet spirit & her “gift.” I know that she touched my heart & I will never forget her…or any of the words she told me. You shouldn’t either!

tngirl

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