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Republican Mocks Single Mothers, Tells His Tenants To Die ASAP This is not an April fools joke
Posted: 16 April 2013 07:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Melee - 16 April 2013 04:10 AM
Accipiter - 15 April 2013 10:47 PM

As for the idea that if you get sick, well, that’s the natural order of things so too bad. . .

You might noticed that money is not exactly something commonly seen in the natural order of things.  Therefore, there is obviously no reason not to “steal money from successful people” because them having money isn’t natural, right?  And because taking away from those who can’t prevent it is common in the natural order of things, right?  Or is “the natural course of things” only to be followed so long as it happens to go along with the whims of those in power?

I’m not sure where you got the “natural order of things” but I don’t believe a society should be without rules if that is what you are implying. That would be ridiculous. Obviously our government is there with the original intention of supplying physical safety from invading armies and to regulate fair trade. The state militias were there to prevent the federal government from abusing their powers and citizens owning guns was granted to protect from the government in case they turned like England was when we escaped in 1700’s.

Getting sick is the natural order of things. Everyone is appointed to die and not one person will miss that appointment. Just because dying is the natural order of things doesn’t mean stealing and murder are acceptable in society. Straw man arguments are only effective againstt he weak of mind.

The bottom line is the overarching natural order of things is nobody has the right to be moronic enough, insane enough, rude enough, enough of a bastard or even enough of a bitch to tell some people they don’t have the right to live as long as other people.

Melee, I’m sure you are a nice person. But I have more faith in Accipiter’s argument (as well as what the others have said) than anything you have said so far.

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Posted: 16 April 2013 10:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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I am assuming that we may have a ‘red-neck’ troll here.  A wanna-be survivalist who would feel better ranting in the dark across an uninhabited abyss where he/she (since we do not know Melee’s gender or age but I think I can also make a wild guess with that as well, let’s see, a male in his mid 20s to 30s, a tea party or libertarian) has no or few neighbors, a large arsenal and king of his own domain.  Also angry that for all of his own beliefs, he is not ‘making’ his own goals that he believes he should have by the age he has now attained but actually believes what he has been told, that he is the one at fault.  Even though he feels he has played by the rules, he is still being splashed by mud from the OTHER side of the street anyway but he will remain strong and straight and continue along the straight road, playing by those same rules because that is his strong principle, what he has been taught. 

He can be told there are stars in the sky, but Melee has been taught those are false and so refuses to see them; does not believe that flowers bloom in the Spring; that when it rains things get wet; that snow is cold yet beautiful….......... Worse, Melee does not believe there are many paths to life, some better than others, some sunnier than others. 

To Melee I would say this:  ALL of us want ‘control’ in our lives and all of us at times feel that control being taken away or slighted by our government.  It does make us angry at times.  We feel crowded, cheated, overlooked.  We too play by the rules put to us and we too get splashed by the mud.  But we also have the power to vote, to get involved with our government through letters and petitions to our Senators, Representatives, City Council.  We also recognize we are NOT alone and as we get older we try to listen and understand the perspectives of others, and we try to help.  The more dense the population, the more we HAVE to pay attention and work collectively or none of us will survive.  It’s like being in a boat with ores for everyone but only a few will use those ores and unless everyone takes part, that boat is never going to get anywhere, and certainly not to safety. 

I understand your frustration, but neither you NOR I are the only ones living on this globe (frankly I also don’t want to be without all the rest, and that includes all the critters).  We have a growing population of amazing scientists, of technicians, of brilliant artists of wise men, of people from one side of the globe who want to learn about the other side of it.  So, we have to take care of ALL of us if we are going to not just continue to grow, but maybe one day leave this globe and even live on another one, then another and another.  So, I don’t want one single mind to be wasted, not a single one who will help us bridge all the things that will make ALL of us successful. 

And the only way to grow is to make sure we do NOT waste our resources, and the most valuable of those resources is the human mind which is encased in a human body so….you have to nurture that human being all the way through his/her life or that resource is wasted. 

 

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Posted: 19 April 2013 07:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Melee - 16 April 2013 04:10 AM

I’m not sure where you got the “natural order of things”

Ummm, I got that from you.  You brought it up in your very first post here.  And then you expanded on the idea later.

Obviously our government is there with the original intention of supplying physical safety from invading armies and to regulate fair trade. The state militias were there to prevent the federal government from abusing their powers and citizens owning guns was granted to protect from the government in case they turned like England was when we escaped in 1700’s.

You’re a bit off on your history of the independence movement and on the conventions for forming government, but that’s a matter of digression.

The main point here is that you’re arguing against your own argument now.  As you just pointed out, the US government was started up with sets of rules. . .and these rules were designed to artificially create a model of society and to pointedly exclude the natural course of things from taking over.  That is one of the very few truly universal intentions of the Constitution’s creators (though then it was often couched in a more semi-scientific natural philosophy way).  It was not meant to be a society where only the fit survive.  Read the very first sentence of the Constitution, and it states quite plainly that the Constitution is supposed to be used to promote the welfare of the general population.

Getting sick is the natural order of things. Everyone is appointed to die and not one person will miss that appointment. Just because dying is the natural order of things doesn’t mean stealing and murder are acceptable in society. Straw man arguments are only effective againstt he weak of mind.

It’s not a straw-man argument.  You brought up the idea that the “natural course of things” should be allowed to simply run riot amongst those who don’t themselves have the means to prevent it.  I pointed out that not only is this a bad idea in that it would seriously harm the future of society, but also that you seemed to be quite happy to have laws enacted to prevent the “natural course of things” happening to other segments of the population who you are showing preferential treatment towards.

Now, if you want a straw-man argument, that would be your going on about how everybody saying that these social programs shouldn’t be cut are saying that we should take all of the money we can from the rich people and leave everybody exactly equal amounts, or that we’re arguing that the government should just shovel money into the hands of people for any reason at all.  Those counter-positions to your own are ones that you have simply made up.  As are your notions that most people who get government assistance are greedy layabouts, or that getting any sort of assistance will lead to nothing but needing more assistance, or that it only takes “personal responsibility” and “rugged individualism” to become successful. . .and especially your notion that people in rural areas are some sort of breed apart, doing nothing but working hard and spurning any handouts.  Those AHEC programs that the congressman was complaining specifically about in his letter?  That was started for rural people.  Rural people take just as much in the ways of government subsidies as do urban people.  Heck, your lovely example of how if the livestock gets out through a hole in the fence, then the farmer won’t be getting any government reimbursement?  Guess what happens if the livestock gets out through a hole in the fence?  The farmer files for government reimbursement.

Before you go around extolling the virtues of one group and decrying the depravity of another, you ought to try actually learning about those groups.

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