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Rick Santorum sucks “Facts” (= outrageous lies) about euthanasia in the Netherlands out of his thumbs
Posted: 24 February 2012 08:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Honestly, I’m not sure if the news agencies over here will go that far. Maybe the Enquirer, but the Sun is busy chasing down Bat Boy and Fox has election coverage. Not saying there won’t be an article or three, but it’ll probably be filling space on page five or something.

If they have anything, it’ll be to the effect of ‘in a coma after suffering severe brain trauma, and not expected to survive’, which while concise, is at least mostly accurate.

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Posted: 24 February 2012 09:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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I just point out that some “news"outlets will twist anything. And they will.
The moment he dies on his own, they will come out with crap like “Did he?”
And whatever. They will always exploit the “?” and when you use a “?” it implies conspiracy… and more sales.

And indeed, you in the States are more into the English royals, but we sit between the Germans (our royality is pretty german blooded) and the English (who are also pretty well german blooded).

But apart from the incest et all.
It will be interesting what the “foreign” papers will make of a “tolerant” Dutch Queen (she is not) with a (let´s face it) braindead child.
And in that light it will not matter what happens.
“They” will always make a buck out of it, simply because they can and don´t give a damn.
Yet a lot of simpleminds will say in a beer inflicted intelect: “well were there is smoke…”

 

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Posted: 24 February 2012 09:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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I actually think that the situation with Prince Friso will show that we Dutch are not so casual with euthanasia at all. It will be interesting to see what happens and what debates will ensue (notably from the Dutch Christian Parliament fractions, and the Dutch Roman Catholic Church and many Protestant Churches) when Princess Mabel decides to end active life-support of her braindead husband. There will be a debate, for sure.

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Posted: 24 February 2012 09:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Accipiter - 19 February 2012 02:42 PM
Robin Bobcat - 19 February 2012 11:28 AM

Yeah, it’s getting more and more difficult in our information age to claim that ‘well, over in *that* country, they eat babies’, because within five minutes someone will have the relevant informaiton in hand.

If only this would lead to politicians becoming more honest…

Instead it just means that their own claims get even more widely spread, and it gets increasingly difficult to find the actual truth amidst all of the noise.

I agree.

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The Kruger-Dunning effect is rampant on internet fora.
J. Kruger & D. Dunning (1999), Unskilled and unaware of it: how difficulties in recognizing one’s own incompetence lead to inflated self-assessments. J Pers Soc Psychol. 77, 1121-1134

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Posted: 24 February 2012 09:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Yep, it doesn´t matter what they say, what matters it is been said and from then on shows up on google. Because what google/wiki comes up with is truth…

Can someone delete this post some of them gets their hands on it?

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Posted: 24 February 2012 09:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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LaMa - 24 February 2012 09:22 AM

I actually think that the situation with Prince Friso will show that we Dutch are not so casual with euthanasia at all. It will be interesting to see what happens and what debates will ensue (notably from the Dutch Christian Parliament fractions, and the Dutch Roman Catholic Church and many Protestant Churches) when Princess Mabel decides to end active life-support of her braindead husband. There will be a debate, for sure.

What came out of the pressconference is that the Royal family is looking for a clinic were they can take care of him.
And that means they want him “alive” for as long as they can.

PS the sudden price rises for gas you are facing in the US now has nothing to do with the fact that our Royals are up to their ears in petrol. That´s a mere coincendense. It´s just that you are finally are paying the price for what it costs. Like we always did in Europe. We always paid per litre what you paid per gallon.

 

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Posted: 24 February 2012 10:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Unfairly Balanced - 24 February 2012 09:58 AM
LaMa - 24 February 2012 09:22 AM

I actually think that the situation with Prince Friso will show that we Dutch are not so casual with euthanasia at all. It will be interesting to see what happens and what debates will ensue (notably from the Dutch Christian Parliament fractions, and the Dutch Roman Catholic Church and many Protestant Churches) when Princess Mabel decides to end active life-support of her braindead husband. There will be a debate, for sure.

What came out of the pressconference is that the Royal family is looking for a clinic were they can take care of him.
And that means they want him “alive” for as long as they can.

Not necessarily. The objective might be to determine, in the coming few weeks, whether he is truely brain dead or not, and then decide on what to do.

The fact that prime-minister Rutte prematurely ends his holliday suggests he anticipates either an imminent death or a lot of political trouble over this situation.

From the little information that has been released, it is not clear at all whether he (prince Friso, not Rutte)  is in a deep coma, or truely brain dead, whether he is able to breath without support etcetera. They do not say he will not wake up: they say it is very well possible he will not.

This is really a sad, tragic case, and the whole country will watch what will happen.

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The Kruger-Dunning effect is rampant on internet fora.
J. Kruger & D. Dunning (1999), Unskilled and unaware of it: how difficulties in recognizing one’s own incompetence lead to inflated self-assessments. J Pers Soc Psychol. 77, 1121-1134

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Posted: 24 February 2012 10:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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I´m afraid, however it turns out, it will be very sour.

And that means they want him “alive” for as long as they can.

Remember they are pretty strict religion wise, being “our” defender (kinda) of the faith. (Which definitely isn´t roman…)
Anyway, it´s something for them to decide.
It´s her (second) son et all. And he is a husband, so his wife has a say.
For me. Whatever they decide is something for them.
And for everybody for that matter when faced with something like this.

BTW Before my marriage (which I celebrated for the 20th time three days ago) I had a girlfriend, very serious etc. Anyway, she got menigitis and was in a coma for three months. I had no say, her family had. And they made the decision to “pull the plug”. Which didn´t amount to much since she was kept “alive” by machines. Brain dead. No respiration on her own. And no way she was ever to come back.
Which is kinda hard when you are 23 year and she is 20. So I can say “been there, seen it, etc.”
And that´s also a reason why I simply hate that santorum guy.
Big mouth, selfish, egotistical, selfcented and not giving a damn but his own pockets. And he´ll say and do anything to get there. Just like that palin woman that suddenly pops up with tv adds.
(sometimes I think we overhere have a better notion of what´s goin on over there than that they have of us).

 

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Posted: 24 February 2012 10:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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For those non-Dutch who wonder what Unfairly Balanced and I talk about:

One of the Dutch Royal princes, Prince Friso, was involved in a skying accident in Austria a week ago, where he was buried under an avalanche for over 20 minutes. His hearth had stopped when he was dug out and he received 50 minutes of CPR (which is long) on his way to hospital in a trauma helicopter.

Over the past week, he was in coma and kept on a low body temperature in an attempt to avoid brain damage.

Today, his doctors told a press conference that he has severe brain damage and might never wake up again.

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The Kruger-Dunning effect is rampant on internet fora.
J. Kruger & D. Dunning (1999), Unskilled and unaware of it: how difficulties in recognizing one’s own incompetence lead to inflated self-assessments. J Pers Soc Psychol. 77, 1121-1134

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Posted: 24 February 2012 11:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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It´s ironic this happended more or less at the same moment that santorum made his stupid rant.

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Posted: 24 February 2012 11:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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LaMa - 24 February 2012 10:43 AM
Unfairly Balanced - 24 February 2012 09:58 AM
LaMa - 24 February 2012 09:22 AM

I actually think that the situation with Prince Friso will show that we Dutch are not so casual with euthanasia at all. It will be interesting to see what happens and what debates will ensue (notably from the Dutch Christian Parliament fractions, and the Dutch Roman Catholic Church and many Protestant Churches) when Princess Mabel decides to end active life-support of her braindead husband. There will be a debate, for sure.

What came out of the pressconference is that the Royal family is looking for a clinic were they can take care of him.
And that means they want him “alive” for as long as they can.

Not necessarily. The objective might be to determine, in the coming few weeks, whether he is truely brain dead or not, and then decide on what to do.

The fact that prime-minister Rutte prematurely ends his holliday suggests he anticipates either an imminent death or a lot of political trouble over this situation.

From the little information that has been released, it is not clear at all whether he (prince Friso, not Rutte)  is in a deep coma, or truely brain dead, whether he is able to breath without support etcetera. They do not say he will not wake up: they say it is very well possible he will not.

This is really a sad, tragic case, and the whole country will watch what will happen.


I am actually not sure what the law permits under these conditions, aside from what the families wishes are.  It will depend amongst others on whether he will be able to breath without support, and whether he has pre-arranged for a situation like this with a “declaration of will”.

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———
The Kruger-Dunning effect is rampant on internet fora.
J. Kruger & D. Dunning (1999), Unskilled and unaware of it: how difficulties in recognizing one’s own incompetence lead to inflated self-assessments. J Pers Soc Psychol. 77, 1121-1134

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