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Imagine this - do you trust doctors?
Posted: 11 February 2011 09:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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According to Starfield’s cited numbers, nearly a quarter million Americans are killed by the medical establishment each year. She goes on to say these deaths are third only to heart disease and cancer.

Heart disease and cancer are diagnosed by this same flawed system, so logic would purport that some of the deaths from the first and second causes of American mortality are actually direct results of misdiagnosis, unnecessary surgery, and the other factors listed above.

Maybe.  Or maybe not.

Given this argument, a conservative number of medical-induced deaths would be a quarter million a year, and a more liberal—and probably more accurate—number would be half a million people killed every year by doctors, drugs, and hospitals.

Half a million people.

Wait, what?  He just suddenly decided to arbitrarily double the earlier estimate, and then treat that number like established fact?  Yeah, we can see how well grounded in reality and fact he is. . .

And here we have the AMA quoting this outlandish number of 36,000 deaths related to last year’s flu strain, as well as pushing a questionable and possibly worthless or dangerous vaccine.

Here he links to another article on the same website as his own article, in which some guy manages to display his total and utter lack of any comprehension of what influenza is and how it works (he seems to think that there is no connection between influenza and pneumonia, for one thing), and where he totally misunderstands various reports and records.  So basically, it’s just more misinformed scaremongering.

“Based on Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidance, the flu shot is recommended for an estimated 174 million Americans—including those who are elderly, very young or immunocompromised, and those who work in the health care delivery system. Still, many people go without, leading to illness, complications and an average of 36,000 US deaths each year. Additionally, in the last two decades, flu-related hospitalizations have increased from 114,000 to more than 200,000 annually.

‘That’s unacceptable,’ said AMA Trustee Herman I. Abromowitz, MD. He spoke at a Washington, D.C., briefing held last month by the National Foundation for Infectious Diseases and the National Coalition for Adult Immunization.

Their message: Flu can be deadly but also can be prevented.

‘The influenza virus ... must be taken seriously by the health care community, as well as the American public, every fall and every winter,’ said William Schaffner, MD, NFID board member and chair of the department of preventive medicine at Vanderbilt University School of Medicine in Nashville, Tenn.”

Here Day quoted various webpages about influenza for. . .well, I’m not sure why, exactly.  He just does, without actually fitting them into his article or really referencing them.  Maybe he needed some filler in his article, to reach some minimum word count.

According to these shamans in white lab coats,

Ooo, misuse of an anthropological term to try to marginalise the people he’s complaining about!  Classy!

we are to take this dubious number of 36,000 seriously. That is a mere 7.2% of the whopping half million Americans who die under the scalpel, in the hospital room, or by dangerous chemicals injected into their bodies.

Notice how that number of half a million people, a number that he simply made up, has now become established

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Posted: 11 February 2011 09:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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So what is to be done? Probing for answers from the rest of the industrialized world, Starfield looks at the Japanese health care system:

“By citing [the above] statistics, Starfield (2000) highlights the need to examine the type of health care provided to the US population. The traditional medical paradigm that emphasizes the use of prescription medicine and medical treatment has not only failed to improve the health of Americans, but also led to the decline in the overall well-being of Americans. Starfield

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Posted: 11 February 2011 09:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Like Starfield said, a cult.

You mean,

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Posted: 11 February 2011 10:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Gosh…........I’m now thinking that when I wake in the morning and a sudden thought occurs to me, maybe I should keep it to myself or wait until I’m really awake and not lasso the first link that comes up. 

Acci your points are more than well-taken, especially as far as this ‘article’ or whatever it was or is. 

I still won’t go out of my way to visit one or any doctor though unless absolutely necessary.  I am also aware that my personal feelings are partly based on a more extensive history than anyone else here.  Shoot, I remember needles used for giving shots that were removed and placed into sanitizers before being used again.  They were larger, thicker and a LOT more blunt than the disposables used today….I remember one breaking off in my arm when getting a shot.  But I also remember having tooth fillings done without Novocaine, with slow moving drills, and having teeth pulled without the use of sufficient Novocaine. 

No, I don’t trust doctors, and it’s not business, it’s personal.

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Posted: 12 February 2011 01:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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oppiejoe - 11 February 2011 09:49 PM

When I was younger (22) I wanted a vasectomy… but my doctor said I didn’t know what I wanted and refused to authorize me to go to a specialist for the procedure (I have insurance that requires my primary physician to send me to a specialist for stuff). I had my first child at 23… then I went back to my physician and asked for a vasectomy… he said I was too young and didn’t know what I wanted. I had my second child when I was 26 and finally he said I was old enough and knew what I wanted… Thing is - now I have two kids to raise and I never really wanted any. Don’t get me wrong, I love my kids, but I still feel like my life was dictated by the experience of my physician and HIS thoughts on life rather than my desires and needs. He has never prospered from my children because I did NOT allow him to be their physician.
....

I kind-of ran into a similar problem.  At age 24 I had 4 children and had found out in the fall that ‘we’ were expecting a fifth. gulp  At the time, young as I was, I was feeling rather overwhelmed by it all.  I had a severely mentally ill partner, and was trying to balance work, school, kid care, and household chores.  Needless to say I didn’t get much sleep!! wink
(The kids EACH saw the doc two or three times a week.  After the wife and I “split” the kids suddenly stopped being so stubbornly sick and only needed the doc once or twice a year. go figure!) LOL

  unsure if I could care for, not to mention have enough love for, another child (and any more that might follow), I approached the doc and requested a vasectomy.  Apparently there is a little publicized rule/ordinance/policy that NO “sterilization” procedures would be performed under the age of at the very least, 25. (I was 24 and 1 month.)  From what I gathered in conversations with the doc/nurse/counselor, many people that had chosen such a procedure in the past, had regretted it heavily later on in life. (After changing partners, for instance.)  I was pretty sure my mind wasn’t going to change! shut eye  After begging/pleading/arguing and finally demanding ‘relief’, my case went before the ethics review board for the clinic’s sponsoring hospital.  They weighed the factors in my case on its own merits.  They said they made a point of leaving everything else “at the door”.

  After a two week (or so) wait, my surgery was approved (after signing a tome-weight ‘release’ form) and was executed a couple of days later.  (The doc and I discussed football whilst it was being done ... same doctor that had delivered all of my children born in this town.)  LOL “How about those raiders?”  LOL  LOL

Of course, it was funny that my vasectomy ‘failed’ some 7 years later, which then lead to some VERY odd and quirky conversations with this same doctor, is another story! wink  LOL

Side note: I’m sorry that the docs have been unable to help you find some relief, Oppie.  Hopefully someone involved in your case will SOON figure out something that will actually work!!

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Posted: 12 February 2011 02:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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hulitoons - 12 February 2011 03:55 AM

No, I don’t trust doctors, and it’s not business, it’s personal.

I understand completely. hmmm

And it’s not that i really blame the docs for it either. fact is, they cannot seem to help me much.  Sure, the pain meds are GREAT, but as for dealing with underlying problems/conditions/illness um, nope! shut eye

They do all the tests.  I bring in literature and research notes/articles and we discuss them.  We develop a treatment plan based upon any/all test results, symptoms, and past history.  So much for the “cult” comparison!  (We work together more as a team than anything else.)  And, not to brag really, but my doc is head of sports medicine/rehab at the biggest hospital/medical corridor this side of Salt Lake City. (He calls me his “mutant patient” and says that i was placed in his practice to keep him humble.  After all, NOT finding a quick cure, or any cure at all, really helps deflate that whole ‘House” attitude!) LOL  One of the doctors on our team even went so far as to (after asking me) take my case file and present it to the attendees of a medical conference in Seattle to see if anyone else had seen or treated others with similar problems.  (No luck, unfortunately.)  And then, when that didn’t help, and there was nothing that seemed to be working or try, my team of doctors lobbied heavily to have me placed as a patient at a very exclusive pain treatment clinic. (That old joke “In Russia, you don’t eat chicken; Chicken eats YOU!) gulp  LOL

And the re-usable needless? big surprise  I remember those only too well.  My childhood doc carried his around in an alligator skin case!  Ugh.  Glass barrels and thick,dull needles! shut eye
(

Good job explaining the numbers, Acci.  I’m sure that I (and others) will be linking to this thread in the future.  After all, since the anti-science/evidence/vaccination shills cannot seem to come up with any new or cogent articles/research supporting their ideas/spiel, I am dead sure we will see these ‘facts’ again.

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Posted: 12 February 2011 04:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Oh, I ended up getting one in the end DavePrime…
...and it hasn’t failed to the best on my knowledge, information, or belief.

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Posted: 12 February 2011 04:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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In the end, doctors are all just people.  And like every other group of people, there are some who are good, some who are bad, and many who are just middling.  You really shouldn’t trust or mistrust doctors, because you can’t really take them as a group.  You have to look at them as individuals, and decide whether you can trust that doctor as a person.

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Posted: 12 February 2011 06:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Someone should let Dr Starfield know about this. Libel lawsuits are fun!

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Posted: 27 March 2011 03:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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A poster here said things like “...I had a child, and ... then I had another child .... and the doctors didn’t do what I wanted…”

Whoops, boy - don’t you understand where these “mystery” children came from?  Let’s be clear - you had SEX, repeatedly, WITHOUT birth control.  Then you had a kid.  You were amazed and horrified at this result.  So ... you had MORE sex, again presumably without birth control.  And, amazingly, you had ANOTHER child ... and ANOTHER ...  and ANOTHER!

And all of this unwanted procreation is somehow the fault of your DOCTOR or the MEDICAL PROFESSION?!  Who the hell owns and manages your penis and your ejaculations, you idiot?  Do you REALLY want doctors to control or supervise the number of children you produce?  There are plenty of reliable methods of limiting the number of offspring you create - and you don’t seem to be aware of any of them.

May I respectfully suggest the “two-brick” method: 
You place your head on one brick, and have a large, strong person repeatedly smash it with the other brick.  Eventually, you will be unable to procreate.
Please note that this method works equally well when used on your “little” head or your “big” one.

For the sake of the rest of the world, please try the big head first.

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Posted: 27 March 2011 04:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Steve, there’s no need to insult people, especially if you don’t know all of the particulars of a situation.  Yes, that poster did have several children…while using multiple forms of birth control.  I know because he happens to be my husband, and I took on the kids from his first marriage.

And what he was upset about was the fact that a vasectomy seemed to be the only other option for effective birth control, but the doctors didn’t think he knew what he wanted.

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