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The Happy Denmark Hoax
Posted: 23 September 2010 02:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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I am surprised that a few of you in here are cursed with the horrible “Danish Mentality”.

The typical “oh damn, this guy has a point, and he says something we don’t like, uhm let’s see, what are we going to do, oh i know, let’s all deny the facts so the focus vanish from ourself, and point fingers instead of analysing the criticism. Yeah, that will work”. It is a very primitive mentality. Almost on caveman level.

More about danish mentality here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tinUj61k-Vk

I doubt that most or at least some of the responses here are from non-danish people, as the responses are very typical danish. I live in the states and i am yet to experience this kind of behaviour anywhere but Denmark.

Regarding the free healthcare, it is not free in that matter, as it is paid through taxes. True that you have to pay for hospital treatments most places, but you also pay a lower tax to help you finance it, the tax in Denmark is around the highest in Europe, if not the highest. Of course, there are a major downside of free healthcare. Compensation is rarely given, and in most cases the amount of money won in such cases as bad hospital treatments are very limited.

This is a great example:

http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article/33781362/?rss

This article, translated to english, basically explains that a case with a hospital treatment in Denmark which resulted in death, has been active for 5 years, but the family to the now dead person, are yet to receive a decision from the complaints board. Since the case is now 5 years old, it has been closed, and the family must live with the doctors and staff members having killed their family member on Gentofte Hospital, Denmark. There is no compensation, no decision, and the case is closed.

Of course this is frustrating for the family, which is understandable, but they were told that the only thing to do was to “complain that the complain-system in Denmark doesn’t work”. Which is yet another fine example on danish mentality - if you don’t like our behaviour and the bad way that we treat you and everyone else - go complain somewhere else, we don’t care. This, and Janteloven ( The Law of Jante ) is what Danish Mentality consists of.

Regarding my stay in Copenhagen, well i met the danish people with a very neutral point of view, i walked down the streets of Copenhagen, i asked people what kind of places for having dinner they could recommend - you know neutral questions, i greeted most people with a handshake, i was being polite and mannered, but most of the danish people were either busy, did not speak english, or simple just in a bad mood as they did not want to have a talk. The only people in Denmark who are open minded, is the foreigners, which of courses comes from different cultures. The danes themself are extremely closed minded.

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Posted: 23 September 2010 03:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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handsomeguy123 - 23 September 2010 06:37 PM

I doubt that most or at least some of the responses here are from non-danish people, as the responses are very typical danish. I live in the states and i am yet to experience this kind of behaviour anywhere but Denmark.

MOST of the folks on this forum are from somewhere OTHER than Denmark.  (Many from the US, Australia, the UK to name a few.)  You have generalized location from perceived attitude?  Weak argument.

Regarding the free healthcare, it is not free in that matter, as it is paid through taxes. True that you have to pay for hospital treatments most places, but you also pay a lower tax to help you finance it, the tax in Denmark is around the highest in Europe, if not the highest. Of course, there are a major downside of free healthcare. Compensation is rarely given, and in most cases the amount of money won in such cases as bad hospital treatments are very limited.

While this is true, the major problem as I see it in the USA is NOT the size of judgments (though that is out of control) it is that we have the equivalent of the population of a 3rd world country illegally within our borders demanding health care.  How would the Danes (or any other EU country) react if the ALL of the citizens of, say, France went there for All their health care?  And didn’t pay?  Not happy would be my bet. (After all, this stuff MUST be paid for by someone!)

Regarding my stay in Copenhagen, well i met the danish people with a very neutral point of view, i walked down the streets of Copenhagen, i asked people what kind of places for having dinner they could recommend - you know neutral questions, i greeted most people with a handshake, i was being polite and mannered, but most of the danish people were either busy, did not speak english, or simple just in a bad mood as they did not want to have a talk. The only people in Denmark who are open minded, is the foreigners, which of courses comes from different cultures. The danes themself are extremely closed minded.

Many countries have citizens that don’t respond well to foreigners that come into their homeland without making any effort to learn their language, and expect the people there to bend over backwards making them feel welcome.  (And since when is it normal to greet people on the street with a handshake?  Most people really don’t want “strangers” within their personal space ‘bubble’.  It makes them uncomfortable.)

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Posted: 23 September 2010 07:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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handsomeguy123 - 23 September 2010 06:37 PM

I am surprised that a few of you in here are cursed with the horrible “Danish Mentality”.

The typical “oh damn, this guy has a point, and he says something we don’t like, uhm let’s see, what are we going to do, oh i know, let’s all deny the facts so the focus vanish from ourself, and point fingers instead of analysing the criticism. Yeah, that will work”. It is a very primitive mentality. Almost on caveman level.

What about your primitive dislike of people who don’t agree with you? There’s a few different terms for that. Plus it hardly helps your argument by being rude like that.

handsomeguy123 - 23 September 2010 06:37 PM

Regarding the free healthcare, it is not free in that matter, as it is paid through taxes. True that you have to pay for hospital treatments most places, but you also pay a lower tax to help you finance it, the tax in Denmark is around the highest in Europe, if not the highest. Of course, there are a major downside of free healthcare. Compensation is rarely given, and in most cases the amount of money won in such cases as bad hospital treatments are very limited.

This is a great example:

http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article/33781362/?rss

This article, translated to english, basically explains that a case with a hospital treatment in Denmark which resulted in death, has been active for 5 years, but the family to the now dead person, are yet to receive a decision from the complaints board. Since the case is now 5 years old, it has been closed, and the family must live with the doctors and staff members having killed their family member on Gentofte Hospital, Denmark. There is no compensation, no decision, and the case is closed.

Of course this is frustrating for the family, which is understandable, but they were told that the only thing to do was to “complain that the complain-system in Denmark doesn’t work”. Which is yet another fine example on danish mentality - if you don’t like our behaviour and the bad way that we treat you and everyone else - go complain somewhere else, we don’t care. This, and Janteloven ( The Law of Jante ) is what Danish Mentality consists of.

You get medical controversies in both free and non-free medical systems. Can you explain why this death was the result of the medical system being free? How would this death been avoided if the system were non-free?

In Australia you have to meet certain conditions to qualify for a free medical consultation as this involves showing your government issued Medicare card. So you can’t be an illegal immigrant and get free treatment without a Medicare card.

Yes, I know “free healthcare” is paid by taxes.

handsomeguy123 - 23 September 2010 06:37 PM

Regarding my stay in Copenhagen, well i met the danish people with a very neutral point of view, i walked down the streets of Copenhagen, i asked people what kind of places for having dinner they could recommend - you know neutral questions, i greeted most people with a handshake, i was being polite and mannered, but most of the danish people were either busy, did not speak english, or simple just in a bad mood as they did not want to have a talk. The only people in Denmark who are open minded, is the foreigners, which of courses comes from different cultures. The danes themself are extremely closed minded.

True I’ve never been to Denmark so if you think you were hard done by that’s for you to judge.

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Posted: 24 September 2010 07:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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The typical

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Posted: 24 September 2010 07:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Regarding the interference of you, Handsomeguy, as an American with NW-Europeans (like the Danish), you Americans are usually not aware of some quite distinct differences in social etiquette between the USA and many NW-European cultures.

To us NW-Europeans, Americans are very “superficial” in contact and frankly can be very annoying, as your way of jumping on people and into situations and conversations in public while trying to make contact to us comes over as “pushy”. To us, there is often a somewhat “desperate” sense to the way Americans try to socialize in public.

Americans talk a lot and easily step up to someone: but at the same time, contacts never go very deep, from our perspective. Hence our perception of Americans as public loudmouths with paper-thin depths that annoy.

There are some definite differences in the way we address things. NW-Europeans (especially we Dutch) tend to be very blunt instead of superficially sugar-coating things. We like to cut the crap, so to speak. We ask “how are you?” because we genuinely want to know (and expect a genuine answer), not out of a meaningless social polititude. So we also only tend to ask that, when we really want to know (which is usually not at first contact, but only later, after establishing some bond).

These are cultural differences between the US way of social interaction, and the NW-European way. If you are not aware of the presence of these (and many first-time American visitors to Europe are not), you’ll run into communication problems. I feel that is responsible for at least part of the trouble you have ran into with the Danish.

From that to whole-sale generalizations that the Danish are “not happy” is yet another stretch that, I think, has to do with your personal (lack of) logic…

In my experience, it takes Americans at least a year of constant presence in our country to get a basic understanding of how we roll in social interaction: and a lot of them, actually never get it, frankly. Those that do get it (and hence mitigate the initial social barrier) get incorporated into our private social circles. Those who don’t, always stay on the outside.

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The Kruger-Dunning effect is rampant on internet fora.
J. Kruger & D. Dunning (1999), Unskilled and unaware of it: how difficulties in recognizing one’s own incompetence lead to inflated self-assessments. J Pers Soc Psychol. 77, 1121-1134

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Posted: 24 September 2010 06:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Interesting look into the differences in our cultures, Lama.  Thank you. smile

Certainly something I shall take to heart in case I ever visit Europe.

And to be honest, many Americans are searching for just such a “straightforward” contact/dialogue when they speak of finding a “small town” to live in.  I think part of the difference between our cultures is that there are just SO MANY people in the U.S. to deal with.  Due to the crowd size, all there really CAN be, for the most part, is superficial “surface” contact. (Whether it be in business or social settings.)  One never knows just how long they will be in contact with someone they just met.  Odds are, they will NEVER see the person again. (Unlike EU societies which tend to be smaller and much more likely to have extensive contacts in the future with someone they may have just met.

(Sorry if that is a little “flaky”, i am really tired and falling asleep at my keyboard…) red face

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Posted: 24 September 2010 08:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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I’m half Polish and I can see some cultural differences even here in Melbourne, Australia. We have a lot of different ethnic groups here.

daveprime - 24 September 2010 10:11 PM

(Sorry if that is a little “flaky”, i am really tired and falling asleep at my keyboard…) red face

I’ve done that plenty of times.  grin

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Posted: 25 September 2010 04:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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“Being the happiest place” status was earned years before Oprah ever even thought about coming to Denmark. Also the mentality of Danes is much different than those of the UK or USA or many other countries. I have lived in the US, UK and many other countries including Denmark, where I reside now.

The Danes are so used to being taken care of by the government that the need to work hard, study hard and doing other things to advance themselves is not that important. Family is always FIRST! You can see that in the short work weeks, long maternity leave, absentism due to family issues, etc.. I do not know if being lazy is correct, it is more like they do not need to prove themselves and being more efficient than others is frowned upon due to the “Jante Lov” (a non-law but more of an ethical standard that says everyone is equal).

As for Danes being happiest, it is better and more correct to say they are more “content”.  They generally like their lives and are comfortable with what they own.  It is not about who has the most stuff, or the best stuff or the biggest car or house. It is about are you happy with your lot! Most Danes are.

You can see that Oprah was overwhelmed with the smallness of everything and the carefree attitude about certain things that Americans care more about: leaving children in baby carriages unattended, living together without marriage, small living spaces, etc.

You can not really compare Denmark with other countries, since their values are different. It is the same with comparing Iran and America or France and UK or Japan and Canada. Every country has it own values and ideals of what is happy.

This is just another dumb study which should mean absolutely nothing except for the professor who got paid to make the study. Come visit Denmark for yourself and be the judge, instead of sitting behind a keyboard and making judgements on something who have never experienced!

Yes, Denmark is dark during the winter, but so is England, north America, Canada and many other countries.  Hey it is winter. Long waits for surgery. Yeah, it is true, but there are alternatives like private care and many patients are being referred to other facilities for surgery. It is the same in the UK.  In the USA it can bankrupt you if you need to go to the hospital. Not in Denmark. Which is better .. long waits or bankruptcy? High taxes - that provide many social benefits or lower taxes and much less safety and help. Pros and cons. 

It is all about what you are used too. Denmark is a great country for many people and those that do not like it can leave and they do.

Charlie
http://www.fyidenmark.com  where you can learn more about Denmark

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Posted: 25 September 2010 07:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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daveprime - 24 September 2010 10:11 PM

Interesting look into the differences in our cultures, Lama.  Thank you. smile

Certainly something I shall take to heart in case I ever visit Europe.

And to be honest, many Americans are searching for just such a “straightforward” contact/dialogue when they speak of finding a “small town” to live in.  I think part of the difference between our cultures is that there are just SO MANY people in the U.S. to deal with.  Due to the crowd size, all there really CAN be, for the most part, is superficial “surface” contact. (Whether it be in business or social settings.)  One never knows just how long they will be in contact with someone they just met.  Odds are, they will NEVER see the person again. (Unlike EU societies which tend to be smaller and much more likely to have extensive contacts in the future with someone they may have just met.

(Sorry if that is a little “flaky”, i am really tired and falling asleep at my keyboard…) red face

I have had a romantic relationship with an American woman for a while, and at that time she and me talked a lot about the culture differences between the (southern- she was from Virginia) USA and Holland. She told me it took her some time to realize that the blunt way of us Dutch is not meant to be mean-spirited or signalling a lack of politeness.

Maybe I have been a bit harsh on the Americans above, but then, it seemed to me that this Handyguy123 needed a blunt approach…

I think your American culture perhaps has evolved towards surface politeness, exactly because you are a mixture of so many cultures. Or maybe it is because you are an ex-British colony, as the UK has (or used to have) a similar surface politeness.

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J. Kruger & D. Dunning (1999), Unskilled and unaware of it: how difficulties in recognizing one’s own incompetence lead to inflated self-assessments. J Pers Soc Psychol. 77, 1121-1134

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Posted: 04 November 2010 11:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Peter - 22 September 2010 03:15 PM
handsomeguy123 - 22 September 2010 03:04 PM

Well the only reason why they are happy is in that picture is because they are drunk, that is how people are in Denmark. I suggest that you got up from your chair and took a visit in Denmark, it is mostly a cold, dark and grey country - and you rarely see a smile. Just take a walk down the streets of Copenhagen, you will see nothing but stone-faces, alcoholics and homeless people sitting around. The only people smiling in Denmark are the foreigners. Which is ironic since they aren’t danish at all.

Oprah has this to do with all this: she is obviously a big name in the media, and to make sure that all these danish people who needed attention because their country is boring, obviously they hired her to do commercial for Denmark. Surely you must have seen the videos on YouTube with Oprah Winfrey doing commercial for Denmark. I wonder how much they paid her for it?

Another article claims that people in Denmark dies on the waiting lists for hospital treatments, but in these fake “Happy Denmark” videos, they claim that the reason why some people in Denmark are happy, is because of the free healthcare. Meanwhile, who are happy when they die on a waiting list? If that is being happy, then hell the people in Denmark have a weird way of being happy.

http://www.cancer.dk/Forskning/nyheder/forskningsnyheder+2007/ventelister+patient+doer.htm

People actually leaves Denmark to get better treatments, some seeks help in China, USA & Germany. There are people who leaves Denmark and moves to Norway & Sweden instead, granted the hospitals and schools are terrible in Denmark.

I just had a look at that link and after I clicked on the English version I couldn’t find any mention on that page as to the implied “hideous state of healthcare in Denmark”. Can you provide a link that is more specific (as well as being in English)?

Have you ever been to Denmark? I’ve never been there so I don’t know what it’s like but if you’re going to make these claims then do provide us with some evidence in English.

Well, here you have it.

http://www.cancer.dk/Forskning/nyheder/forskningsnyheder+2007/ventelister+patient+doer.htm

Taken from the headline of the article.

Kr

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Posted: 05 November 2010 06:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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LaMa - 24 September 2010 11:03 AM

The typical

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