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How NOT to support your product online
Posted: 05 August 2010 07:48 PM
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I have noticed quite often that, in discussions on such products as NAET, CieAura, LifeWave, and so on, there tends to be a whole lot of repetition.  New people will show up, usually to sing the praises of whatever product that is being discussed.  And almost immediately they will fall into one of about a dozen different types of bad tactics.  It is as though they are given a script before signing up, and then blindly follow it from there on.  And every single time, it has to be explained why their arguments just don’t work.

So to save time, I’ve gone ahead and drawn up a description of some of the more common errors that people in these discussions fall into, and why the errors are errors.  Now, instead of having to write out a long reply every single time I run across such an error, I can just link to this page.

And perhaps some of these new people will take the time to read this before posting, and so will be able to avoid these errors right from the start.  Perhaps. . .

Thus, the list:

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Posted: 05 August 2010 07:49 PM   [ # 23 ]
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1) The Testimonial

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Posted: 05 August 2010 07:50 PM   [ # 24 ]
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2) The Evil Doctor Conspiracy of Doom

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Posted: 05 August 2010 07:50 PM   [ # 25 ]
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3) My claims must be true, because people disagree with them!

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Posted: 05 August 2010 07:51 PM   [ # 26 ]
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4) You can’t talk about it because you haven’t tried it!

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Posted: 05 August 2010 07:52 PM   [ # 27 ]
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5) What’s the harm?

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Posted: 05 August 2010 07:52 PM   [ # 28 ]
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6) But everybody is using it!

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Posted: 05 August 2010 07:53 PM   [ # 29 ]
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7) Invisible proof

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Posted: 05 August 2010 07:53 PM   [ # 30 ]
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8) Science doesn’t have all the answers!

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Posted: 05 August 2010 07:54 PM   [ # 31 ]
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9) Modern conventional medicine is bad for you!

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Posted: 05 August 2010 07:55 PM   [ # 32 ]
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10) People should be allowed to make their own decision

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Posted: 05 August 2010 07:56 PM   [ # 33 ]
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11) You all just don’t want to know!

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Posted: 05 August 2010 07:57 PM   [ # 34 ]
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12) Huh?  I didn’t hear anything!

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Posted: 06 August 2010 01:01 AM   [ # 35 ]
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Bravo! Well-written and exhaustively-researched, as usual, Acci. Seriously, I worry about you sometimes. Still, correct on all points and then some.

My personal past-time with the supporters of miracle cures and other quackery is to go through and count the logical and debate fallacies. “Hmmm,” I say, “Let’s see what we have here.. Argument from Ignorance.. Demanding Negative Proof.. Ooh.. reductio ad Hitlerum with a pre-emptive anti-Godwin.. That’s good…”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies is a good reference for anyone wishing to argue on the Internet. If you can argue with someone’s position, without using *ANY* of those fallacies listed, then your position will be a very strong one.

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1: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If it does what it says, you should have no problem with this.
2: What proof will you accept that you are wrong? You ask us to change our mind, but we cannot change yours?
3: It is not our responsibility to disprove your claims, but rather your responsibility to prove them.
4. Personal testamonials are not proof.

What part of ‘meow’ don’t you understand?

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Posted: 06 August 2010 02:46 AM   [ # 36 ]
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Yeh, but I bought it and it worked!! This forum is so closed minded, you all think conventional medicine is the only answer. Science doesn’t know everything! I used these products on my dead rabbit and it came back to life, so there.  😉

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Posted: 06 August 2010 02:55 AM   [ # 37 ]
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Mr R - 06 August 2010 06:46 AM

Yeh, but I bought it and it worked!! This forum is so closed minded, you all think conventional medicine is the only answer. Science doesn’t know everything! I used these products on my dead rabbit and it came back to life, so there.  😉

Actually, your mom just went out and got a new rabbit. Mr Bunnsy is buried under the rose bushes in the back, and the new one is more appropriately *Mrs* Bunnsy.

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1: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If it does what it says, you should have no problem with this.
2: What proof will you accept that you are wrong? You ask us to change our mind, but we cannot change yours?
3: It is not our responsibility to disprove your claims, but rather your responsibility to prove them.
4. Personal testamonials are not proof.

What part of ‘meow’ don’t you understand?

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Posted: 06 August 2010 07:36 AM   [ # 38 ]
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Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, Mr Bunnsy is dead. :-(

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Posted: 06 August 2010 11:28 AM   [ # 39 ]
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Long Live Mrs. Bunsy!!!

Really, though.  Accipter is once again long-winded, but right… Have we come to expect any less?

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Posted: 06 August 2010 10:06 PM   [ # 40 ]
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I have to admit it would be hard to put one over on him.  I don’t have near the patience he does in researching and expounding on the stuff our local nutjobs come up with.  Gotta give him credit for that.

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Posted: 07 August 2010 03:16 PM   [ # 41 ]
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gray - 07 August 2010 02:06 AM

Gotta give him credit for that.

Credit, cash, gold, or jewels:  I’ll take all of those.

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Posted: 13 September 2010 09:49 PM   [ # 42 ]
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Accipiter - 05 August 2010 11:51 PM

4) You can’t talk about it because you haven’t tried it!

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I’m an Oxy-Moron!

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Posted: 14 September 2010 03:41 AM   [ # 43 ]
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Peter - 14 September 2010 01:49 AM
Accipiter - 05 August 2010 11:51 PM

4) You can’t talk about it because you haven’t tried it!

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1: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If it does what it says, you should have no problem with this.
2: What proof will you accept that you are wrong? You ask us to change our mind, but we cannot change yours?
3: It is not our responsibility to disprove your claims, but rather your responsibility to prove them.
4. Personal testamonials are not proof.

What part of ‘meow’ don’t you understand?

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Posted: 15 September 2010 02:21 PM   [ # 44 ]
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Peter - 14 September 2010 01:49 AM

Sex. Have you tried it?

Of course not!  What sort of a person do you take me for?!?

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Posted: 21 September 2010 05:15 AM   [ # 45 ]
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Accipiter - 05 August 2010 11:56 PM

  Heck, quite often they’ll say that they don’t actually know anything about the product and don’t care about knowing it, either.

And then they accuse us of being the ones who are refusing to learn about the product.

that’s my buddy to a “T” a couple of nights ago he and i got into it about CieAura. I kept asking him question and he kept saying “i dont know” “i dont know” “i dont know”
and I simply say:

“how can you not know…you are selling this product (or giving it away, he does both) you are endorsing this product and you know nothing about it how is that possible? I know quite a bit about this product and am finding that i want to know more and nobody can tell me more!”
and his response is:
“i dont have the time and the energy for that nor do i care to know how it works and if you want to know more then here contact this guy”
he hands me a card with a couple of email addresses and phone numbers (so far he has not answered my call nor returned my voice mail messages…guess the emails are next)

you hit that defense tactic on the head!!![size=3]

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Posted: 21 September 2010 08:10 PM   [ # 46 ]
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I’ve taken to answering this argument with one of my own:  my amazing and marvelous shotgun-to-the-head therapy.  This therapy consists of being shot repeatedly in the head at close range by a shotgun firing alternating loads of solid sabots and buckshot.  This therapy will cure cancer, increase vitality, improve complexion, boost intelligence, properly align your chakras, balance your cellular resonance energy, antioxidise your quantum, and stop your feet from stinking.

So far, none of the people pushing the

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Posted: 21 September 2010 08:46 PM   [ # 47 ]
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Nah, now, see, that’s just new-aged hippy crap. This is tried-and-true traditional medicine.

I wonder if the homeopaths use shells stuffed with rock salt?

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1: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If it does what it says, you should have no problem with this.
2: What proof will you accept that you are wrong? You ask us to change our mind, but we cannot change yours?
3: It is not our responsibility to disprove your claims, but rather your responsibility to prove them.
4. Personal testamonials are not proof.

What part of ‘meow’ don’t you understand?

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Posted: 08 January 2011 05:34 AM   [ # 48 ]
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Power Balance, but still, good to see this BS is getting hit where it hurts.

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1: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If it does what it says, you should have no problem with this.
2: What proof will you accept that you are wrong? You ask us to change our mind, but we cannot change yours?
3: It is not our responsibility to disprove your claims, but rather your responsibility to prove them.
4. Personal testamonials are not proof.

What part of ‘meow’ don’t you understand?

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Posted: 24 February 2011 12:28 PM   [ # 49 ]
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I was just recently reminded of another tactic that people often use when trying to support some dubious product.

.

14) The Appeal to Emotions

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Posted: 24 February 2011 08:05 PM   [ # 50 ]
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Accipiter - 24 February 2011 05:28 PM

Of course, when you take away the emotional aspect of it all and look at what the person actually has to say, you’ll generally see that they don’t really have anything to say.  Often, they’ll just be a case of “my claim is right because a vague undefined feeling tells me that it is”.

Or ... “Because I really really NEED it to be true!”  😕  :down:

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Posted: 26 February 2011 02:12 AM   [ # 51 ]
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Along the same vein, all I can say is heh.

Personally, I think Acci’s list is way better…and no, that’s not just because I’m biased at all…nope, not me!

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Posted: 26 February 2011 11:55 AM   [ # 52 ]
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I still like to go down the list of Fallacious Arguments in Wikipedia. It’s good to have them handy for such emergencies.

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1: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If it does what it says, you should have no problem with this.
2: What proof will you accept that you are wrong? You ask us to change our mind, but we cannot change yours?
3: It is not our responsibility to disprove your claims, but rather your responsibility to prove them.
4. Personal testamonials are not proof.

What part of ‘meow’ don’t you understand?

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Posted: 26 February 2011 02:07 PM   [ # 53 ]
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Smerk - 26 February 2011 07:12 AM

Along the same vein, all I can say is heh.

Personally, I think Acci’s list is way better…and no, that’s not just because I’m biased at all…nope, not me!

That list is hilarious.  Why do I read forums like this and lists like that when I need a self-esteem boost?

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Posted: 30 March 2012 03:59 PM   [ # 54 ]
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Is there a spot to click on I do not see?

Dan the near-blind

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Posted: 30 March 2012 05:12 PM   [ # 55 ]
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Click on the word “heh” . 😊

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Posted: 30 March 2012 05:14 PM   [ # 56 ]
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ARRRRGH!!!! :ahhh:

Not CRACKED!!! :gulp:

Now I won’t escape for a week!! :down:  😠  :red:  :lol:

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I Am Still The Black Swan Of Trespass On Alien Waters
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Posted: 30 March 2012 08:06 PM   [ # 57 ]
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Awww, you know you love it, Dave! 😉

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